Season One Revisited

J_A · 2007-06-04 17:51:56

As you know, from this week on we're travelling back in time and all the way to a nore or less intact Bauer family, a deep-cover mole inside CTU and a cocky analyst named Almeida who are about to be thrown into a fight for - or against - an African American presidential candidate with a real shot at the presidency.

Bring on season 1 .

Will post my thoughts as soon as I've rewatched eps 1 to 4. and I hope you do too

smitten · 2007-06-05 20:53:38

Here's a question I've wanted to know the answer to for ages. I can't say how many times I've heard Kiefer say "the following takes place on the day of the California Presidential Primary". What I want to know is - what is a Presidential Primary? The impression I get is it's some sort of election where the people almost vote who they want as president, but not quite. Can someone please enlighten me?

J_A · 2007-06-05 22:35:34

hehe. I know just the person who can enlighten you on the topic. our mod, MF_Luder. I'll let her know tomorrow. in the meantime, check the wikipedia links below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_primary

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_election

hope they help

Steph24 · 2007-06-06 02:13:05

Aren't they suppose to help one of the parties before the election so that then the one who gets the most represents that party? I really don't know, since I really don't learn sh.... from my SS teacher.

J_A · 2007-06-06 07:09:29

yeah it's just what it is. it's the election to choose the candidate who will run for a certain party. so senator palmer back in season 1 was in a race to win the nomination of the democratic party as its candidate for the presidency. and he did, as we all know

great sig pic, steph, by the way. love it.

smitten · 2007-06-06 08:40:53

Ah, I get it now. Jack Addict's second link explains it. I was confused because here the choice of party leader would be very much an internal party affair, limited to paid-up, card-carrying party members, or just MPs, not in any way open to the general public. I just couldn't work out why in season 1 there was such glitzy TV coverage of an election, and then no president at the end of the day!

Thanks!

J_A · 2007-06-06 12:03:56

hehe, well, it's just a stage before all that other glitzy stuff comes

you're welcome

Steph24 · 2007-06-07 03:04:10

jack_addict wrote:

great sig pic, steph, by the way. love it.

Thanks J_A! Sexy Jack ofcourse Man he's hot... And hmm.. what can I remember about the beginning... uhoh! Need to refresh, maybe I'll go read the episode guides! Oh I know, my 24 Season 1 and 2 Companion Guide! I knew it would come to more use! lol!:P

J_A · 2007-06-07 19:01:31

lol. yeah.

well, I just watched the first two eps. the first thing that hit me was that kiefer was kiefer to me back then and even now. maybe because the character of jack bauer wasn't that known to me yet so kiefer was an actor I knew and I was just getting to know jack. it still hit me as that this time around. now, it's vice-versa, and I see jack bauer in each character kiefer plays

second thing. george mason. didn't like him back then. in s1 he was this real bueraucratic a$$hole and he only became likeable before somewhere in s2, I think but let's not get ahead of ourselves here. nice stunt there with shooting him with a tranq dart, showing just that jack will go to certain lengths and cross certain barriers to do the right thing. one a bit prophetic phrase there: "you'll live to regret this, Bauer." I'm sure jack regretted lots of things, if not necessarily this one.

trust. tough concept. loved the way they stated that from the start and played it nicely throughout. jack having blown the whistle on three of their agents, walsh telling him not to trust anyone, jamie, nina, tony. that that, too, was still fresh. we were prepared - or I was - to actually mistrust everyone. by now, it's a little of an overused concept or maybe it's just cause we're used to it. or I am.

the chemistry between nina and tony was never quite what it was later between him and michelle, (is mentioning michelle technically a spoiler here? hmm). but it worked well enough. godly almeida moments like,

"I've been trying to pick up a thread of my own."
or bringing up the transcript of the phone call between jack and nina
or "I was really impressed with what a convincing liar you were."

and damn, he's been hot since s1, I wonder how come I hadn't noticed back then . just think the goatie away and *thud* . the goatie didn't really suit him, I think he was too young and too "innocent" for that. it looked so much better on him in s4.

there, my first thoughts for the first 2 eps. hope someone else chimes in soon

M F Luder · 2007-06-08 07:48:12

Heh, watched the two first eps too. Ah what can I say, so much has changed since then. I did like the beginning, as weird as it felt seeing Jack in a domestic setting. The scene between him and Kim did have a good feeling in it.

Even if it was more Kiefer than Jack in the beginning, it was a nice ground to built things on. The harder edge comes later as things start to happen.

Then, Almeida . Where to begin? Heh, the ever present sarcasm, and his doubtful nature. "Oh and he's Mr. Clean, huh?" "But when you and I punch out, we're something else. OK?" :D:D. Almeida is God.

He's never been too good at being just pushed around.You could see it as Jack gave him an order, not too happy to follow it...but he did. And later as he puts together 2 and two about what happened to Mason in Jack's office . Not buying Nina's explanation. "Very incisive", even then .

They started with a good mix of action and lead-ins. Not just continuous action and explosions right in your face all the time. The way it should be.

hardy24 · 2007-06-08 10:39:56

I just watched the first episode. Thoughts.

I didn't really know Kiefer Sutherland's work all that well, indeed hardly at all when I first saw the episode, so I didn't really get hung up on, "oh look he's doing tv", or any of that.

Apart from that, and the other things I always notice when I watch this episode again, there were a couple of new things I noticed, though really it's only with hindsight that your ever likely to see them.

There are two very important tipping points/crossroads for some of the main characters, which are really subtly done, but which I did see this time around.

a) After Palmer gets the phonecall from Maureen Kingsley and Sherry asks what it was about, David doesn't tell her, and Sherry asks "since when don't we talk about these things?", then David closes the patio door. This is what pushes her I think to become the Lady Macbeth character that she does later on in this season, David's cutting her out, and he's risking losing everything they've worked so hard as a team to do, so shes gonna force herself back in, and take control.

b) Nina saying, "I thought you wanted to get your life back together ..., you think this is helping?", I don't think anything could possibly sum up Jack Bauer and the inner conflict he is going through, and at that point, crucially before he really knows his family's greater connection to everything, he's made the decision to follow this investigation wherever it leads him, even at the cost of sacrificing or damaging his personal and family life. A decision he would perhaps regret in days to come, but I think really it sums up who he is, and at this moment he decides to be true to himself.

More thoughts to follow as I watch more.

J_A · 2007-06-08 10:56:06

two very good points there, dan. in fact, MFL and I were watching these together, in real-time thanks to the net and we did pick up on both of these points, too. you're very right about sherry. it's funny how men (at least on this show) seem to react to problems with shutting their wives out rather than letting them in and the wives then turn away or against the husbands.

about nina's comment, yeah, at this point when you know nothing of the things to come, it's just a funny moment. but thinking about its deeper meaning, you're right. it's just like jack's speech he gave her about compromising. "you can look away once and it's no big deal. except it makes it easier for you to compromise the next time. and pretty soon it's all you're doing. compromising. because you think that's how things are done." very true and also underlines who jack is at this stage. true to himself and his principles and will do anything to do his job right

smitten · 2007-06-11 11:17:35

Now finished watching the first four episodes. How fresh-faced, and dare I say it, innocent and naive Jack looks? It's amazing how much they pack into the first seven minutes of episode 1, in terms of the atmosphere, the edge, and getting to care about the characters.

There were two scenes that had a lot more impact on me this time round. The first is where Jack is flirting with Teri ("Really, really appreciate that?"). We so rarely get to see him having any fun. Then he takes just a split second to compose himself to give Kim her talking to. You very quickly get a feel for the dynamics of this family, and you want them to make it work.

The second is where he questions Nina ("How long have you been playing me?"). When he pins her down, this is the first time I'm scared of Jack. Everything about him becomes so menacing so quickly. By this point we know that they've had an affair, they've split up and stayed on good terms, she is incredibly loyal to Jack. What does it take to be that threatening with someone you know so well?

I know the character of Jack fits Kiefer like a glove, and I honestly think part of the reason is that they're so similar. They're both very good actors and they're both a bit scary.

J_A · 2007-06-11 14:07:25

smitten wrote:

I know the character of Jack fits Kiefer like a glove, and I honestly think part of the reason is that they're so similar. They're both very good actors and they're both a bit scary.

actually, while I know what you mean (they're both scary), Kiefer has repeatedly said in interviews that he and jack bauer are not alike at all and that he's even grateful for that. for example, kiefer does not believe that the end justifies the means but he admires jack's level of committment (like we all do)

the scene you mentioned with jack and nina, that's really true. it's when you're really afraid of jack. and now, with hindsight, knowing what we know, you start thinking, "oh jack, if you'd only believed the evidence and not nina". *sigh* (but then again, if he had, the season would be over, right? ) chapeau to nina though, for pulling it off. lying to everyone so convincingly (thankfully, the writers never told her that she would really be the mole so that they could keep the acting convincing )

then, Tony. hmm. *drool*. not nearly enough Tony in the 3rd and 4th eps. but a couple things he does are crucial. first, he calls a lockdown. we learn that he doesn't appreciate being left in the dark and that he doesn't trust jack. while he wasn't exactly right from my subjective POV to call a lockdown, I can understand it perfectly well. he doesn't know what's going on, he thinks he should be told and acts according to what he believes is right.

another cool moment, jack to nina, while he's keeping her in his office so jamie can look at the keycard evidence. "I'm just trying to understand why he's been giving me such a hard time" - got me thinking, 'Oh Jack, that's just the beginning of Tony giving you a hard time" . it's really great, the way they started this on a note where nobody trusts anybody and you get the feeling of secrecy everywhere - and then down the line, relationships and trust are built or destroyed. but more to that later.

george! I'll admit, I didn't like the guy in s1. but then again, that's what they wanted us to feel, right? but some wonderful george moments were here in these eps. with nina, with jamie, trying to get them to talk. I can't remember an exact quote right now, but I know I was thinking, "ooh, gotta love george" at some point . sarcasm in person. of course, only topped by Almeida later on in the series

smitten · 2007-06-11 16:44:29

jack_addict wrote:

actually, while I know what you mean (they're both scary), Kiefer has repeatedly said in interviews that he and jack bauer are not alike at all and that he's even grateful for that. for example, kiefer does not believe that the end justifies the means but he admires jack's level of committment (like we all do)

Quite. And I was relieved to read somewhere that Kiefer sometimes has problems with what Jack does. It's just that feeling of not quite being sure what they're capable of.

jack_addict wrote:

the scene you mentioned with jack and nina, that's really true. it's when you're really afraid of jack. and now, with hindsight, knowing what we know, you start thinking, "oh jack, if you'd only believed the evidence and not nina". *sigh* (but then again, if he had, the season would be over, right? ) chapeau to nina though, for pulling it off. lying to everyone so convincingly (thankfully, the writers never told her that she would really be the mole so that they could keep the acting convincing )

She wasn't a mole at this point. The writers hadn't got to that stage yet. Their original story only lasted about 7 episodes (till the first attempt on Palmer's life), then they had to write a bit more. Then a bit more to make 24 episodes.

jack_addict wrote:

then, Tony. hmm. *drool*. not nearly enough Tony in the 3rd and 4th eps.

The crazy thing at this point is, we care a lot more about Jamie and Nina than Tony! He's really not a sympathetic character in season 1. After that, we realise that this day was a huge learning curve for him. We also know that he doesn't sook up to the boss, so we respect him a lot more in later seasons.

J_A · 2007-06-11 19:42:27

you're right on call counts, smitten. in season 1, my brother didn't like tony at all! I have to say, my problem with him in s1 is only his goatie . the result of him failing to shave prior to the first day of shooting. lol.

as for what he did, it's like dan said at some point. tony is this cocky analyst who thinks he's got it all figured out and by the end of the day he realizes he knows nothing. he doesn't trust jack but by the end of the day he is in the position of backing up jack in everything he does. but we'll get to that later . bottom line, tony learns a lot - like you said - but at this point, all he did was bring george in and call a lockdown. he'll thankfully prove more useful later

as far as nina goes, yeah I know she wasn't a mole to the writers yet. they were even thinking of making tony that mole, but the point is, for nina's character - assuming her memories - nina's character knew she was a mole, if you understand what I mean. . as for the writers, they wrote the first 13 eps and not beyond that. because the 13th ep was when it was decided whether the series would go on or be pulled.

Steph24 · 2007-06-12 18:45:04

Hmm.. okay. So I thought this season had a lot of like, I'm not sure how to explain it, but like remember when Kim and her friend Janet were in a car? But then they drove by Teri and Alan (don't wanna put any spoilers with that name.) I thought that just made me go, as a viewer like, OMG! They were right there! Unfortunally, I saw Season 2 before I saw this season, so I kinda know a bit and it was really weird when I first watched it for sure.

The only one that annoyed me was I believe, Alberta Green, but she came later. Ryan Chappellle was also one too, but I think I'm going ahead.

J_A · 2007-06-12 20:02:06

yeah you're going way ahead alberta and chapelle come in later, when jack goes awol again .

you're right, I think what you're talking about are "coincidences" - something we learned not to believe in on 24. lol

smitten · 2007-06-12 20:15:19

Steph24 wrote:

I thought that just made me go, as a viewer like, OMG! They were right there! .

I know what you mean. As a mother, I just want to scream at Teri at those points. "She's behind you!!!!"

Steph24 · 2007-06-12 21:56:56

You don't know how many times I screamed at the tv for that.:P

Sorry J_A for going a bit ahead.

I remember seeing Kiefer's hair before lol! It was really long and very blonde, now, it's short and sorta darkish now. I like it now

J_A · 2007-06-13 11:02:07

he was cute in s1 . now he's just gotten older

smitten · 2007-06-13 20:56:55

jack_addict wrote:

he was cute in s1 . now he's just gotten older

He's still cute. Every line on his face is cute. But in season 1 he's positively boyish.

hardy24 · 2007-06-14 10:36:50

Going back to Nina as mole for a quick second, whats really odd are the moments that watching it first time, with no advanced knowledge, you don't even blink at, especcially the early episodes when you were perhaps not quite as "must analyse every second addicted", but looking at again, there are moments that when you see them again you think, "there look, she was defintely always the mole, they always knew she was, clever writers." Case in point, phone call between Teri and Jack near the end of episode one, Nina is very clearly listening to Jack's side of the conversation, and at a crucial point, when the reception goes dead, it looks as if Nina has something to do with it as shes leaning forward and using controls of some kind. Then when Jack addresses her, she gives him a look of, "oh, didn't see you there."

But all the characters had moments like that, I reckoned Tony had a few, moments that could be read either way. Slowly layering in the possibilitiy of a mole.

smitten · 2007-06-14 13:27:05

hardy24 wrote:

Going back to Nina as mole for a quick second, whats really odd are the moments that watching it first time, with no advanced knowledge, you don't even blink at, especcially the early episodes when you were perhaps not quite as "must analyse every second addicted", but looking at again, there are moments that when you see them again you think, "there look, she was defintely always the mole, they always knew she was, clever writers." Case in point, phone call between Teri and Jack near the end of episode one, Nina is very clearly listening to Jack's side of the conversation, and at a crucial point, when the reception goes dead, it looks as if Nina has something to do with it as shes leaning forward and using controls of some kind. Then when Jack addresses her, she gives him a look of, "oh, didn't see you there."
But all the characters had moments like that, I reckoned Tony had a few, moments that could be read either way. Slowly layering in the possibilitiy of a mole.

You're right, I went back and found that scene. I hadn't noticed it before. I suppose they wrote things in such a way, giving everyone a subtle layer of suspicion, so that they could turn anyone into a mole. But I think we'd be a bit annoyed now if we found out that Jack is really a mole!

J_A · 2007-06-14 13:30:33

you're right. those things are indeed subtle manipulations on their side. i'm so glad tony wasn't the mole. I still get a laugh from interviews with carlos where he tells about the hideous clothes they wanted to have him wear - hawaii shirt and crap. in one of the interviews i've been reading again lately he was like, "WHAT? you're gonna make me wear THAT? If I had, I would have been dead within a week" lol. . luckily, apparently jon cassar or someone walked in and went, WTF? so carlos got new clothes

the thing about s1, they were really trying to make everyone look suspicious and it worked. you were thinking, what the heck is tony doing calling in Division? can george be trusted? jamie is looking a bit dark there, nina is playing both fields, it's actually - if you can look at it with fresh eyes, quite a good way of planting the seed of mistrust.

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Season One Revisited

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