Ep 7x20 Discussion

J_A · 2009-04-28 19:28:21

Does Tony have his own agenda? Sure, I think he does. I hope he does. Because if he's really working for these people, then the killing of innocents is just around the corner and tony - who's so far not been about killing innocent people for one second - suddenly crosses that line.

but the episode was really, really great. the acting is superb, be it cherry jones, kiefer or carlos - it's simply flawless and such a joy to watch. joy? no, more like pain. physical pain, more and more, over jack's stinging words regarding tony, over tony's actions that certainly make it seem as if he were totally evil, heartless, ruthless. but man, don't we know enough about 24 to know better? I'd say he still has an agenda of his own, and wouldn't put it past them to screw over the people he's working with.

loved seeing chloe back. well, not loved her so much as it was nice to see her finally hear from jack what happened to bill - and seeing her and jack discuss tony's turn for the Dark Side was a bad heartache on this side of the net... "I need to know if you can treat him as an enemy combattant." ouch, jack.... but tony didn't leave him much choice, did he....

I'm not going to write my usual giant text cause I am guessing no one reads ithem anyway. I'll say this ep was a 10 and I can't wait for the next one - and I know that I'll suffer withdrawal once the season's over...

J_A · 2009-04-29 09:26:14

on the AIG forum, someone raised the question of "who knows who", and thinking about it, I've come to the following conclusion:

Fake Lawyer was the intermediary between all parties involved, and the guy whom she IM'd to "chime in" is probably the leading man in the whole conspiracy. I marvel at the fact that parties 1-7 (I t hink they were 7) didn't know who each individual was, but I suppose it's plausible if you assume Fake Lawyer and the Leading Man contacted each of the individuals separately and everthing was on a "need-to-know" basis.

and in order to finance the operation, these people only needed to know who was orchestrating everything and who was producing the pathogen - i.e. the Fake Lawyer intermediary and jonas hodges. of course, since Tony supposedly worked with Fake Lawyer, his name would have been known to each of the 7 parties involved, but Tony himself wouldn't know any of their names. Which makes sense if he wants to uncover the conspiracy, then he MUST appear as though he's still working with them, because he honestly doesn't know any names other than the Fake Lawyer's, whom he's obviously smooching with (a detail I thought was actually quite unnecessary). the likes of Emerson, Juma & Dubaku would have been known to everyone on the Secret Committee, but in turn, Emerson, Juma & Dubaku would only know their immediate contacts, no one else.

So, to sum up, this season is actually shaping up to be amazing and so much like S1 in how it reveals pieces of the large arc slowly and patiently, and in the end, all the pieces of the puzzle will fall into place. I'm confident Tony still might be working to uncover the conspiracy, and - as Cee mentioned - he has always been a damn good liar and pretender, and whomever he was playing, it's very plausible to assume he would have been successful in it. Tony's an intelligent, quick-thinking guy, and he's proven more than once that he's capable of making quick tactical calls, and if he really is the Mastermind behind this whole thing, then it is the ultimate proof of his Godliness. .

Right now, I'm leaning towards this falling together in a picture of "Tony's still trying to uncover the conspiracy cause pretending to work with them is the only way to do it, since they covered their tracks and worked on the assumption of anonymity." Sure, there's still room for him wanting personal revenge and wanting to use the canister to kill logan, but frankly, right now, I don't think so. Michelle's death is such a perfect reason for him to convincingly play the disgruntled, government-hating ex-government servant, and put him in a place of credibility with both sides - a genuine rogue agent - so that he could do what he needs to do to prevent a lot of innocent people from dying.

Almeida is God.

hardy24 · 2009-05-06 20:08:16

Hmm, I really didn't dig that as much as I did 19. Parts where awesome, others left me wondering if they'd gone through any kind of drafting or revision at all.

Right, good points.
- Hodges is still alive, and his and Jack's face off was brilliant. Jack's "we have nothing in common" as he pulls the wool from Hodges eyes and reveals he is in fact not a patriot but a power hungry ego manic.
- Chloe is back
- Tony being a badass.
- The "Kabal"

Generally bad points
- Felt a little sluggish generally, it really should have zipped along
- Jack's condition is such a yo-yo, they have to make the brave call and simply confine him to a comfy seat somewhere giving advice when he spots something - he shouldn't be co-director of the federal counter terrorist bureau.
- Haven't we had "two brothers up late, one of them cooking eggs and watching the news" before?

Huge Problems
- After Jack's rant against Hodges "ends justifies the means" speech he very quickly springs back into full "do whatever it takes, even if it is illegal" mode. The show had done so well to try and put an adult conversation forward about methods and risks etc that i'm more than a little disappointed to fall so completely off the wagon and back into full Neo-Con mode, especcially when they'd been playing a clever game of showing the kabal to be fear mongering in order to gain power.
- Apparently the president has huge problems ordering a witness protection agreement but enthusiastically orders the CTU "Big Brother" Servers back on line, she is now Jekyll & Hyde, emotive for the "emotional" bits but "decisive" when the plot needs moving forward.
- Again, on hodges and Witness protection. Olivia is really getting on my nerves, put really it ain't her fault, the writing for her is just all over the place. I could write an essay on her writing, but instead will give you one simple example from this episode, why, when it appears she is intent on having Hodges bumped off doesn't she simply do what Jack threatened and leak it to the press that he's still alive. She appears to have quite some skill at that and as I recall has a fairly "close" relationship with a TV news editor so ambitious he'd put anything on the air. So with the story leaked, Hodges would get finished off and she'd be atleast two steps removed. But no, she'd rather call a close colleague, spout a lot of suspicious stuff over an unsecure line and arrange to meet, not in a dark car park or a motel room, but the white house, so they'll be a record of them meeting. Her character is all about the "under world" of politics, but Carl Webb, she ain't.
- Jack, his attitude in the last 15 minutes really annoyed me, especially not when discussing Tony with Chloe, I couldn't believe how emphatic he was about Tony's guilt with her, given how many times he himself has "gone rogue" or otherwise seemed to be committing actions contrary to his immediate brief for him to have no doubt what so ever seems so off and something I don't buy.

Overall, it looks like a terrible case of "too many cooks" that it must have been rewritten in a hurry, perhaps this episode is what caused them to ask for more time.

I'm willing to believe this episode was a unfortunately neccesary mess in order for the awesome last 4 episode I pray are to come, but i'm not filled with hope. It's actually not a terrible episode, but it's really more akin to a mid season episode and to see them make such basic mistakes which they've side stepped so deftly recently just looks like over confidence.

J_A · 2009-05-06 20:39:48

you'rea very right about olivia and all the "huge problems" you're mentioning. I'm about to watch ep 21, which I've heard was "Okay" - and frankly, if that's true, then i'm really too worried about how the last three eps will play out. this should be building towards a fulminant finale, and not losing steam in the end - ESPECIALLY since they finished shooting in december, and the season only started airing in may, so there CAN'T have been the pressure of "writing as you go along". they should have got this right.

oh, and btw, did you notice two familiar characters in this ep, two actors having been recast as a different character again? quite honestly, it is this recasting (which, imho puts 24 on the same scale as stupid soap operas) that has really disturbed me big time this season. it pulls me out of the world of 24 and tells me "But that guy was XX in season 4!! how can he now be someone else?" we've had at least four prominent recasts this season:

1: general juma = detective norris, s3

2: white house secret service agent = SS agent frank simes, s1

and now in this ep:

3: the brother cooking eggs (yes, we had that scene before) = the brother in the weapons store, s4

4: one of the conspirators (Fake Lawyer's anonymous teleconference) = the leader of the mclennan forster assault looking for jack and paul raines.

this stuff is majorly annoying to me. and frankly, VERY unnecessary. I mean, if that's what we're doing, why not just bring back Sherry Palmer and say she's now Jack Bauer's Aunt....

anyway, going to watch ep 21 and try not to be disappointed at it. (cause if I am, my hopes of having tony survive will die)

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#1 2009-04-28 19:28:21

Ep 7x20 Discussion

#2 2009-04-29 09:26:14

Re: Ep 7x20 Discussion

#3 2009-05-06 20:08:16

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#4 2009-05-06 20:39:48

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