7x11 / 7x12 Discussion - When you guys get there

J_A · 2009-03-04 23:57:00

Episode Post-Mortem: Midnight Thoughts on 7×11 and 7×12

Posted on almeidaisgod.com by J_A on March 4th, 2009 at 12:49 pm

Please allow me to scream: I NEED MORE!!!!!!!! After just watching 2 episodes back to back, Im craving a 3rd one, and a 4th one, and Im an addict. Again. And I dont mind at all!

Episode 12 has done it to me. And yes, despite the lack of Tony. This is probably the best Tony-No-Show episode this season, and Id rate it a clear 10. With the automatic 0.5 deduction for No Tony, it makes it a 9.5. Ill also deduct another 0.5 for the screw-up in the Casting department that Kasia has already commented on: Secret Service Agent Simes (Season 1) being recast as Secret Service Agent Hovis without anyone noticing, making the episode 9.0 But thats still pretty fucking amazing for mid-season episodes, when you think about the possibility of mid-season sags. There is not a trace of that here. The middle of the season is just as rock solid as its beginning was, in fact, so far I have not noticed a single sag in the current season.

I do need to deal with that lack of Tony though, for a bit, just for a bit. Weve had the beginning of the season revolve heavily around Almeida, then he became irrelevant for a couple of eps, then came back in all His Awesomeness for a brilliantly written and executed scene in episode 10, and was then allowed a couple of scenes during episode 11, only to be let go again by 12. Now, while we know that he will come back when action moves out of the White House, I am still sort of bothered by his degradation from Focus Of Attention to Informant Being Left Out Of The Action. (Sorry about the annoying capitalization, this will stop now). Basically, its almost also a return to Season 1 - where Tonys purpose was mostly informational But ok, lets hope hell have something to do sooner rather than later. Where do we stand now? What can Tony do? We know from Juma that he was planning on meeting up with Burnett at 2130 hours somewhere So, Tony - being as hes the only one outside the White House and not currently under arrest, detained or held hostage, could try and stop whatevers supposed to happen at 2130h. Also, weve heard that the shipment Hodges is expecting from Juma can be rendered useless so Im assuming its something of high value and high impact - a piece of technology or a weapon that Hodges is planning to use and Tony will be able to help stop. Hopefully. As Jack so gently reminded him, he is a wanted felon (Thank you, Jack. Rub it in, Brother!) So the only way for him to ever be redeemed is to be the one to actually save the President / get rid of Hodges now. But well see. Who knows what the writers have in store! Personally, I wouldnt mind Jack sitting at the White House for a few hours now, letting Tony take the lead in the field - we need that balance back!

Summa summarum, I think the writers have pulled off two of the boldest episodes in the shows history, and all that without even using nuclear weapons! Lets look back. One assassination attempt on a presidential candidate, a (chemical?) attack on that same person once he became president, Air Force One being shot down with the President on board (did he actually survive?), an acting President turned traitor to his own country interrogated by Jack one on one, and a bomb exploding in the face of a President with every intent to kill him (did Wayne survive?). Yet as far as I recall, these incidents have been limited to about one per season. But in Season 7 or immediately preceeding it, weve had the Presidents son murdered, the First Husband kidnapped and shot at, the Prez being blackmailed (yes, we had a fair share of that before) and now we have an armed hostile takeover and seige of the White House itself, with the President, her daughter and more than 50 people in it. It just gets better and better - and the writers surely havent been lacking courage! Im intrigued, Im scared, Im pulled in, and theres no way to tell how this will end. Of course, I dont believe that they will kill this President - they cant, simply because she needs to survive to pardon Tony and Jack in the end (No, dont poke my balloon of dreams)

But theres a question that needs to be asked: who wont survive? Now that the first half of the season is over, it is probably time to make some sacrifices in terms of main(ish) characters And quite a few of them are close to the barrels of General Jumas weapons Including the widely admired Aaron Pierce, and the man who I believe is currently winning the favorite Post-Season 3 character poll - Bill Buchanan. Sure, theres Jack, too, but we all know that Jack has a bullet-proof aura of invulnerability and immortality protecting him from evil characters of all sorts. The Presidents daughter - well, honestly, I hope they off her. Shes annoying the hell out of me, but because the season is focussing on relationships and there is a long way for her and her mother to go, I dont believe shell be offed. Theres the Senator, too, but honestly, hes not important enough to kill. Has anyone seen Tim of NSA? Was he among the hostages? Hmmm.

Aaron, dear ol Aaron I fear your time has come Youve already been shot, maybe youre the most likely first hostage to die. Or maybe the sands of time are running even lower for Bill Now that the undercover op is over, he doesnt need to protect the President anymore, and he proved not to be able to cross the lines necessary to be in the field with Jack, so No guarantees. Or wait, maybe I should reconsider my statement concerning President Taylor Wouldnt it be the ultimate Never Been Done Before stunt to actually murder the President just so, with her staff watching and Jack, the Secret Service and the FBI unable to prevent it But, no, I really think she needs to survive. Period. Unless were supposed to do without Cherry Jones in the future, now that shes grown on us Or at least, shes grown on me.

You know, I also must admit that for the first time in 12 eps, I have truly been surprised by one thing or another in these eps. Surprised, or simply amazed - both at the twists and at their execution.

First of all, Jacks White House action. I dont see why exactly he needed to pull a gun on Bill, but man, was it good! Ill come back to that later. Then there was Jacks discussion with the Pres and Senator Meyer:

AND YOU, SIR, ARE WEAK!

Wow, Bauer, you really dont shy away from anything anymore. That and the discussion with Bill in the lockup reminded me of Jack and George back in the day. You want results but dont want to get your hands dirty. A recurring theme with Jack. What I really didnt see coming was Jumas ballsy bluff that gave him control of the White House! But the most shocking moment was definitely Jumas direct establishment of hierarchy at his first meeting with President Taylor by slapping her. Now this - a villain, or anyone - raising a hand and slapping an acting President has never ever happened before. I think I actually yelled Wow! when I saw that. Every good character has done great and honorable things in these eps, including Renée, Bill and Aaron. I just wish Tony had gotten a chance to play, too.

But the eps didnt deserve a 10 just for their courage. I loved them for so many things.

Dubakus being Gainesed surely wasnt a surprise. We all knew he wasnt going to make it. But his son being on Jumas team was a very nice twist. Speaking of which, have you noticed how similar the two actors actually are? Father and son Dubaku, that is. When the son was speaking, his mouth and face had the same features as his dad Scary. I wouldnt be surprised to read that the actors are in fact related. If theyre not, then the casting was just simply brilliant (it still doesnt excuse them from the Not-Simes fuck-up).

We finally got a little taste of what it would be like if Chloe and Janis had to work at the same office! Man, that stuff had me laughing loudly! Too bad it was over too soon. Somehow I dont see OBrien working in the building much longer. Jack has once again managed to get the trusty Chloe into trouble and into holding Hey, Chloe, keep yer chin up. Youve been there before, girl! Theyll end up needing you again.

Didnt we all just LOVE Jacks taking Bill out of play and interrogating Burnett INSIDE THE WHITE HOUSE! Now, Jack, that took some serious cojones! The whole scene with Bill there was wonderfully played, I loved that moment, the glance Jack gives Bill when he realizes that he is throwing everything out the window (until they realize they cant put Jack Bauer in jail after all. But were not there yet.) Jack showed the same affection for Bill as he had for Renée back at the FBI, the knock-out hug. An instantly classic Jack Bauer Badass Moment. Even more brilliant than that was the little discussion he and Bill had at the holding, through the bars. Bills knowing what needed to be done, but knowing just as well that it wasnt in his character. I loved it.

And were looking at torture again, from a different angle. Many different angles actually. We all know Jacks standpoint on it. Then theres Senator Meyer, who seems to remain concvinced of his choice to condemn coersive methods even while being held hostage, the President, whos obviously willing to look the other way up to a point but cant and wont condone Jacks behavior outside of her authority, Bill, who, while understanding what needs to be done, is not willing or able to do it himself, and we find out for certain what Tonys ominous statement towards the end of episode 10 meant.

It wasnt easy getting the information out of him. But Im convinced its accurate.

No, Tony did not torture the guy Almeida style, with lots of whispering and smoldering looks, even though thats the only thing weve ever really seen Tony do. This time, hed tortured that guy to death - or killed him after the interrogation. Hes darker, much closer to Jack in doing what needs to be done than hes ever been. With no constraints, rulebooks or protocol to adhere to, and the stakes as high as they are, its understandable, really. This season, Tony will stop at nothing, just like Jack. There is a pitch black side to Tony now, and it is quite enjoyable watching it slowly float to the surface. We can at least say that even if hes not in each episode, theres a relevance to each moment of Almeida on the show.

The Safe Room situation was inevitable, of course, because hey, Bauer was there, and we all knew he wouldnt stop until he got the Prez to safety. But when he closed the door (with himself inside, not only the President!), and Bill got caught but not immediately killed, Im certain that all of us thought not again - with Emerson, Motobo and Motobos lifeguard still fresh in our minds. Well, thankfully, the situation turned out to be a little more complex than that, and thats good. Jack obviously wasnt willing to play Motobos guard, though. The star of the show must live! The plot there was good, and organic to a villain like Juma so I had no problem with the little Saunders revival there with the eye At least he took the threat a step further.

The President has really evolved into a massive mountain of a character. I loved the discussion between Jack and her inside the Safe room. First and foremost, weve learned that Presidents - with all their power and responsibility - are all just people. President Taylor has been very brave and very stubborn so far, but now that the decision she makes will not put the American people in immediate danger but only her own life, she is first and foremost a mother. A fact that allows her to discuss with Jack on two separate levels, the duty to their country, and the need to protect their family. What would Jack Bauer do? Would he stand by and watch his daughter get butchered? No, of course not.

But I am not the President of the United States,

he counters.

Well, I am the President. And Im ordering you to open that door.

Another perfectly written scene. Pure and simple amazement. Bottom line: stubborness stops when your loved ones are threatened, whether youre a villain or a good guy Which is why I think that the worst, most ruthless villains - and the most unbending leaders opposing those villains - are those with no family, and nothing to lose but their own life, which, if theyre true believers in a cause, they will be willing to let go of in order to achieve whatever goals theyre after. But I digress.

I am also glad that for once, a traitor did not go for the deal offered to him. I might be wrong, but I think this is also one of the new things - so far, most collaborators have gone for the pardon, havent they?

Bauers going to prison and a traitor walks. Whats wrong with this picture?

Another Instant classic. Lets just hope she doesnt see Tony that way later

I cannot end this burst of enjoyment and excitement without a huge cheer for Renée! That gal is kick-ass! Too bad her phone took a bath and she wasnt able to warn Larry in time, but her action scenes were in no way sub-par to anything Jack has done. She jumps onto a moving boat, goes right into the planning room and finds Jumas target, then gets chased by a boat and still manages to outswim it, she kicks the Dubaku Jrs butt in a fist fight and finally plays the psychological card on him - Renée rocks, shes the best non-Jack field agent weve had in a long time. Should CTU be back in play by Season 8, they should definitely let her work in Field Ops! It was also great to see Larry get out of his office again and this time do some real field work, guns n all. He looks good out there!

Ill leave this with a few questions: What is the VP up to? Is he in on this plot? Or is he just afraid and covering his own ass. Sure, he had a (weak) point there in not letting the FBI storm the building, but that whole discussion reminded me of the Season 4 Logan (whom I have hated then and still do). Hell, the guy even used the exact words Logan used But why? Is he actually working towards his own elevation to the Office? Or is he just a skillfully implanted character that can sway either way and keep us guessing?

I cant believe were half way through the season already, and yet, I want it to be next Monday tomorrow! I cant wait.

But in the meantime - lets play some darts!

hockeyfan_94 · 2009-03-05 02:05:16

I agreed with everything that you said. I really couldn't have put it any better.

I still don't understand why Jack would allow the President of the United States, to whom he has a sworn duty to protect, to walk into a room filled with people who are absolutely going to kill her. It just doesn't seem like something that Jack would do.

And while I enjoyed these episodes and thought they were the best of this season so far, I thought it was a little unrealistic that a small army was able to scuba dive into the WH. It was just like in Season 6, where the Chinese crawled into CTU through the sewer system. Neither of these were very realistic or even possible, but they were damn entertaining!

Overall, my favorite episodes in quite a while (probably since the beginning of this season, or even longer!). I need a 24 fix, and I can't wait until Monday!

J_A · 2009-03-05 11:22:11

I still don't understand why Jack would allow the President of the United States, to whom he has a sworn duty to protect, to walk into a room filled with people who are absolutely going to kill her. It just doesn't seem like something that Jack would do.

it isn't, and he wouldn't, and he tried to stop her and all, but he was given a direct order by the president of the united states and we all know that jack will obey the orders handed down to him by the pres. even if he didn't like them.

and yes, it was quite unrealistic that they'd get complete control over the white house - at least I HOPE it's unrealistic! hehehe. also, wasn't it a MEGA-efficient drill there? they made a man-size hole between the counter of hour 11 and the counter of hour 12 - which basically means it took them what, 30 seconds?

hardy24 · 2009-03-16 20:16:06

I've not had chance to read your post J_A, although I have to say while I did enjoy these episodes, they didn't blow me away like some episodes have recently. Very solid for mid season episodes. But just not the equal of those great midseason pair episode 12 & 13 of season 1, which truly had my blood pumping.

I guess my true gripe with these episodes was a few of the 24 cliches creeping back in. The mid season killing of an important villian etc, plus just look at the parallels between the white house raid and last seasons CTU take over. Some rather ilogical thinking on both Jack's (he could have bluffed that the door couldn't be opened since he'd shorted the electronic lock) and the President's part (she was brave and bluffed when her Husband's life was at risk, but folded like a deck of cards when it was her daughter in her place)

On there own these are small things which I've largely been over looking all season thanks in large part to the overall quality. But there where too many in too short a space of time in these episodes. I reckon this indeed the mid-season readjustment, where they've effectively but things in a holding pattern while they place pieces for the remainder of the season.

J_A · 2009-03-16 20:41:20

yes, there is a large amount of repetition and repetitivity in this entire season. I think you have to look at all of it as a return to season 1 in literal ways. all the 24 clichées are there, and the only reason I'm able to overlook all of that is the quality of the dialogues and characterization. while the show's being bold - it's also just being itself. and there's a too large lack of tony to justify the "hey, we got this great storyline for his character so we decided to bring him back." if their "great storyline" means "we got you believing he was bad, then good, but we're gonna turn him and make him and jack really go up against each other and finally get him the silent clock he deserved so you guys stop bitching" then I'll be sadly disappointed and rewrite all of my benevolent reviews and just shatter them with just how unimaginative and repetitive they've been this whole season...

some people have been bitching about just how unrealistic it was for juma to even enter the White House the way he did. I had never asked for 24 to be realistic in these things, cause hey, it's all about the story and I would hope that no one could get inside the White House - this way or another. But if we're bitching about realism, we could start with the CIP device that controls every major infrastructure in the country - come on, that would be far too naive - for the exact reasons used on the show. then we could add the hypothermic compound and henderson's missing the artery in the heat of the struggle and a lot of other things. but so far I've just taken it as served cause the execution of things was good.

but I disagree with Taylor's reaction being uncharacteristic. after all, when she was ready to sacrifice her husband, it was about not giving in to a terrorist in order to save many lives, sangalans in particular, and the whole world was watching. Now, it is only about saving Olivia's life and the president's actions only directly influenced her own life, or her daughter's. and the whole thing was quite private, within the White House walls. so I can live with that. Besides, having almost lost her husband, having seen what the people she's dealing with are capable of, I think she's realizing things and as such, might be chaging, too. after all, characters develop and evolve, and this might be part of her evolution.

as for the electronic lock, yeah, I was in fact wondering how in the hell he WAS able to open the door since he'd shorted the lock.... I mean what point was there of breaking the lock if the door could still be opened?... ok, at least it couldn't be opened from the outside. however, I swallowed this because it gave us a great scene between Taylor and Jack about family values so I liked it.

Rexy · 2009-03-19 22:52:50

Wow, I did really like these two episodes as well and everything you guys have to say is really interesting. Jack interogating the assistant of the guy who is trying to make an example of him in the White House, awesome. Terrorists in the White House, awesome. Also, it is not enough that they have lots of shots of the (fantastic) Agent Walker running, now they have her wet and running, I bet the guys love that, but I forgive her because she does truly kick ass!
I too was really worried about Bill and Aaron in these episodes, hiding behind my hands moaning "oh no, I can't look, I can't look!" Still slightly worried for them, particularly Bill, but hey, that's the price you pay for watching 24.
The only thing that is nggling at me is: Why did Tony say the information was definitely good, and then pause and grimace when Bill asked if the source was dead? Someone on this site suggested maybe Tony had tortured him to death to get the info, but I was wondering if Tony WAS the source, and if his undoubtedly complex motives and secret activities somehow mean although he is trying to work with Jack, he has also got a direct line to Juma? After all, the only member of Emerson's crew who I can think of who is still alive after the kidnap of Motobo is, err...Tony! Maybe I am reading too much into it? Maybe it was just about torture? Bring on the next episode!

P.S. I wonder how many people Jack has given the Knock-out hug to? I can think of Tony, Renee, Bill and Curtis, but there must be many more. Feel the love people!

J_A · 2009-03-20 09:43:23

The only thing that is nggling at me is: Why did Tony say the information was definitely good, and then pause and grimace when Bill asked if the source was dead? Someone on this site suggested maybe Tony had tortured him to death to get the info, but I was wondering if Tony WAS the source, and if his undoubtedly complex motives and secret activities somehow mean although he is trying to work with Jack, he has also got a direct line to Juma?

yeah, someone has in fact suggested tony being the source too, on the other site I frequent. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers did that cause it would definitely be a very big twist. I can totally see them doing that since they were so excited about this season, saying that they had such a great storyline for tony, and now he's been missing for a few episodes - too many to account for a GREAT storyline that involves him throughout. So... somehow I am seeing them turn him again, which, of course, will eventually kill him.

and yes, you're right about bill and aaron. they're in danger.

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#1 2009-03-04 23:57:00

7x11 / 7x12 Discussion - When you guys get there

#2 2009-03-05 02:05:16

Re: 7x11 / 7x12 Discussion - When you guys get there

#3 2009-03-05 11:22:11

Re: 7x11 / 7x12 Discussion - When you guys get there

#4 2009-03-16 20:16:06

Re: 7x11 / 7x12 Discussion - When you guys get there

#5 2009-03-16 20:41:20

Re: 7x11 / 7x12 Discussion - When you guys get there

#6 2009-03-19 22:52:50

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Re: 7x11 / 7x12 Discussion - When you guys get there

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