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#1 2009-01-17 22:40:47

24nut
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From: London
Registered: 2007-04-14
Posts: 376
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7x05 Discussion / 12:00pm - 1:00pm

Discussion for episode 5!


"Please, as someone who was once your friend, let me die in peace" - Jack Bauer [Season 7]

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#2 2009-01-17 23:09:56

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
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Re: 7x05 Discussion / 12:00pm - 1:00pm

you're way ahead of time, man big_smile. upping your post count? tongue

what's with the discussion of the already existing threads?


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#3 2009-01-21 10:53:12

24nut
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From: London
Registered: 2007-04-14
Posts: 376
Website

Re: 7x05 Discussion / 12:00pm - 1:00pm

oh not not at all, if i wanted to be a forum member that likes to rank up a post count then i'd go to a forum like the 24 insider tongue A place where you can post and post and post about seemingly nothing, i really dont like that place. I simply opened this the day before airing in the us because i noticed no one else had done it yet and i knew i wouldn't be logging on that day, seems like no one wants to discuss it though. tongue

Last edited by 24nut (2009-01-21 10:54:07)


"Please, as someone who was once your friend, let me die in peace" - Jack Bauer [Season 7]

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#4 2009-01-21 21:24:25

Rexy
Member
Registered: 2008-12-02
Posts: 18

Re: 7x05 Discussion / 12:00pm - 1:00pm

OK, I'll bite the bullet. I think perhaps people are being a little harsh. I mean, we moaned incessantly about season 6 (although episode by episode I still thought it was pretty entertaining, it just didn't work as a season and wasn't as great as we know 24 can be, it was still better than a lot of stuff on the goggle box) and then raved about the first amazing 4 episodes of season 7. Then they throw in a nice episode which furthers the narrative of the (hopefully season long) plot and some people feel deflated. Isn't a nice cohesive season plot what you wanted? If so you need episodes like this. It can't all be like the first four episodes, you need to made to wait and feel the anticipation to make the great moments great.

As for the plot being a bit predictable (e.g. Jack being tasked with killing Renee Walker and Secret Service agent Brian being a traitor) how far do you want to go. They have made it clear that there is a mole in the FBI, but the fact that we are still guessing who it might be (I'm putting my money on Sean's blonde lady friend for starters because there will be more!) makes it engaging. After season 1 it can no longer be a surprise that there is a mole. Surprise us too much and you lose the essence of the programme (and revert back to season 6) the beauty of it is trying to navigate the red herrings and guess the truth. After all, Renee's assasination brought to mind Nina's flak jacket shooting but was concluded refreshingly, and Tony having to kill Jack brought back the Salazars empty gun and Jack shooting (slow) Chase but was again resolved in a satisfying 24 way.

Finally, I wonder how far they can take the president if they kill off her husband, and am still secretly hoping he escapes death at the hands of the baby-faced agent. Also I was always suspicious of Sam (the presidents son's girlfriend) but am happy to be taken in by a red herring and be proved wrong wink.

Also, I am highly suspicious of the presidents number two (not sure of his name, but he is the guy who gave the presidents husband the file on his son's "insider trading"). Really must pay more attention to names smile

Come on guys, sit back and enjoy the ride! 24 is back (and so is Tony for all you Tony-lovers, which even as a Jack fan, I have to admit is awesome).

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#5 2009-01-21 22:34:08

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
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Re: 7x05 Discussion / 12:00pm - 1:00pm

24nut wrote:

oh not not at all, if i wanted to be a forum member that likes to rank up a post count then i'd go to a forum like the 24 insider tongue A place where you can post and post and post about seemingly nothing, i really dont like that place. I simply opened this the day before airing in the us because i noticed no one else had done it yet and i knew i wouldn't be logging on that day, seems like no one wants to discuss it though. tongue

just kidding, james. I've been posting my thoughts on the main site and also on almeidaisgod.com so there has been a little discussion going on in the comments there... sorry, seems like none of us remembered to post in the forum! LOL.

as for ep 5, yes, rexy I agree. even though my review of it says that it's repetitive, and it is, I also said I didn't mind all that much and you've put it well - it is because it brings back those pretty moments from the past and because it's so beautifully executed (pun intended). I am still enjoying it, and I am enjoying the slow development of the storyline. I got really angry at someone (actually 2 people) who started yelling that the season so far was boring and lame - well, those are the people who have obviously enjoyed season 6 a little too much and cannot appreciate what we fell in love with about 24 in the first plac.

maybe kasia on aig.com put it best when she described the last season as "on with the plot, characters bedamned" - and indeed the characters' development and relationships still are what is carrying this season, and I am enjoying that. honestly smile. it has gone back to the roots, it is reverting to the good old values, and yeah, as far as surprises go, we can't expect too many. I think I said that, too... (check here: http://24fans.com/2009/01/nothing-new-in-the-west-first-thoughts-on-episode-5/)

anyway, yeah, i don't think I need to repeat myself any further, I like the plot so far, and I have faith that the season will be quite enjoyable . and as someone who has not bought season 5 or 6, I am now very seriously considering buying season 7 regardless of its outcome even regarding tony wink. shhh, MFL don't read this wink

I believe the reason some of us have been a little harsh on ep 5 was the sheer greatness of the first four eps, but yes, first of all, this ep primarily served to continue with the plot (which is necessary of course) and second, I am sure that once the DVDs are out, and we watch this in a back-to-back fashion like we used to, we'll be grateful for eps like this one cause they'll allow us a moment's respite to catch our breath before the next ride like ep 3 or 4 were smile

one more thing, I was kinda assuming the Henry Taylor was practically dead, but in fact he is not yet. he is just paralysed for now... might still survive. I'd like to see more of the dynamics at the White House.


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#6 2009-01-23 12:58:11

deadmanmoz
Member
From: The school of hard knocks
Registered: 2007-04-16
Posts: 145

Re: 7x05 Discussion / 12:00pm - 1:00pm

An enjoyable episode, although made me sad that we were given a taste of Bill and Chloe back then they didnt appear in ep 5 sad

The story is slowly gainging some momentum to it although it still has it's slack points.

I'd like to see the presidents husband die, not to sound harsh, but he does annoy me and i think it would help that story progress alittle more if he perished but perhaps the girlfriend escapes.
I guess the problem then would be who would pursue the issue, the president wont.

I wanna see Jon Voight again coz he'll be an AWESOME baddie, as well as Tony Todd, what a great choice for General Juma, let's hope he appears more.

On a slightly older note i'm alittle disappointed the Almeida being undercover story was revealed so early, it seem's as if the writers couldnt wait to tell us all he is good dont worry, like a kid with a secret, itching to tell everyone.
I fear for Tony now where as if he was kept as a "Terrorist" for a few more episodes then revealed as undercover his future may be brighter.

I dont like the FBI at all, none of them, i know it takes a while for new characters to "Earn" their stripes in 24 but this group are just awful. Partic the head guy and Jeanine Garofolo, they are both HIDEOUS actors and it's a shame 24 employed them.
I think the mole will be either of these two as well, probably Garofolo.


Make no mistake gentlemen, we are in the fight of our lives, against maybe the greatest marine commander in the Vietnam War, I SH*T YOU NOT.

Now a days everybody wants to talk, like they've got something to say, but nothing comes out, when they move their lips, just a bunch of jibber-rish.

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#7 2009-01-23 21:46:25

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
Website

Re: 7x05 Discussion / 12:00pm - 1:00pm

oh I don't know man... I totally disagree with you on most counts.

first of all, tony's chances of survival if he were a baddie would be very low. second, don't worry. I think from the interviews carlos has been giving us, he will not die again. they'd be colossaly stupid to do that. as for revealing it early, they did, but you know what? did we EVER really believe he was a real evil villain? At least I haven't. but even so, I think you're missing something. he isn't all GOOD and he isn't all BAD. that is the issue, he's kinda gray, he has issues, and I like it that now we're able to play with that.

he has problems with jack and problems with emerson - trust and loyalty will continue to be a topic. so I don't mind knowing he isn't bad, and hey, MFL started watching s7 again now that she knows he isn't THE villain (which was originally the idea, btw... ugh. then he would have died for sure). that being said, he did play such a fantastic bad guy that it would have been fun to watch him be "evil" for longer - but really, once he did NOT crash those planes, I knew for sure he wasn't. I didn't even need the "interrogation" to know that. so that "tony is evil" storyline was blown right then and there, you know? why should they have dragged it out any longer than just till the next ep? I don't think it would have been necessary.

and I do like the FBI. the characters are just people doing their jobs, and there isn't anyone like that bastard Hammond yet... so I don't hate any of them yet. as for Janis, hey she is the FBI's chloe and she plays a weird character - I don't think she's a bad actress, it's just that her character is weird. I didn't like chloe when she first appeared in s3, but I got ot like her, and I think that's why I now don't mind Janis. as for Sean, he won't be a mole in the end, or not THE mole anyway. it'd have to be someone higher up in the FBI. someone with level 5 clearance and above. however, Sean might be one of the moles. we don't know yet.

I am so NOT annoyed with the pres's husband. he has a purpose and a determination - which is something that is important in characters. i think he's a brilliant actor, and hope we'll see more of him! the dynamics at the White House just wouldn't be the same without him. Also, like people pointed out he's not dead yet. he's paralyzed and this kind of a cliffhanger is a good sign that he will probably survive somehow. despite the semi-silent clock. so we'll see.

and mozz, overall, weren't we bitching about how season 6 was all about plot, plot, plot and not characters? this season is giving us exactly what we wanted - the characters are given time to develop, we're given time to enjoy the story, to do guesswork, to enjoy the camera work, the little looks and glances, I think the season is wonderfully enjoyable. and I do NOT think that it needs to "gain momentum" - did you completely miss the superstrong scenes full of tension and emotion we've had so far? and hey, we had a few firefights and abductions etc, too. so I really don't think there's anything wrong with it - aside from maybe what I said in the latest review - that all plot points seem to have been there in one way or another in earlier seasons, but as long as the execution is this good, I won't truly mind.

and hey, it's tony! and the Brotherhood lives! what more could I want?

like dan said, just sit back and enjoy the ride mozz smile


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#8 2009-01-26 23:46:57

24nut
Member
From: London
Registered: 2007-04-14
Posts: 376
Website

Re: 7x05 Discussion / 12:00pm - 1:00pm

well, i've seen episode 5 now, aired in the uk about 2 hours ago and i must say i think it was a great episode. Jack and Tony yet again were simply superb, im liking the first husband storyline, although the agent being a badguy was kind of inevitable.

The ending to the episode was brilliant, so we dont know whether she dies or not, but she knows Tony and Jack are both undercover. The shots through the plastic sheeting were brilliant and very dark, it showed a real gritty side of 24 that is sometimes shown, but not as effectively as this, and when the dirt covers the plastic... cue silent clock, its brilliant stuff, very solid first 5 episodes.

Cant wait till next week.


"Please, as someone who was once your friend, let me die in peace" - Jack Bauer [Season 7]

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#9 2009-01-27 12:17:44

deadmanmoz
Member
From: The school of hard knocks
Registered: 2007-04-16
Posts: 145

Re: 7x05 Discussion / 12:00pm - 1:00pm

Some very valid points JA.

I think we must remember here that i'm still alittle bitter about how i left 24 all those years ago and so getting me back on board is a big step, now re-kindling my love with the show is the next big step.
I'm going to pick at bits for a while until i'm back in the 24 zone, but i do see me getting there, i can certainly see the "24 light" at the end of the tunnel, which i never thought i would again.

Although that being said, i cant me liking Janis because i dont like the women as an actress let alone the character.
Also the head guy, i'll struggle to like him for the same reason.
Sean has potential and i do like him as an actor, same goes for rennie i guess.

The idea of Tony as a bad guy did appeal to me coz if i had Dessler and then she was taken away i'd go all evil moz wink


Make no mistake gentlemen, we are in the fight of our lives, against maybe the greatest marine commander in the Vietnam War, I SH*T YOU NOT.

Now a days everybody wants to talk, like they've got something to say, but nothing comes out, when they move their lips, just a bunch of jibber-rish.

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#10 2009-01-27 21:57:19

J_A
Administrator
From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
Website

Re: 7x05 Discussion / 12:00pm - 1:00pm

deadmanmoz wrote:

The idea of Tony as a bad guy did appeal to me coz if i had Dessler and then she was taken away i'd go all evil moz wink

oh my almeida... watched ep 6 and I'm hurting for Tony, I really am. this ep was so strong again, it almost had me crying. but more on that in the appropriate thread wink

and moz, I'm glad to have you on board - same with MFL - and I know it'll take time for you guys to rekindle your love with the show, just know, we're here for you, and in my book, I think the show deserves redemption - it's really damn good.


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#11 2009-02-02 14:25:40

Steveb
Moderator
Registered: 2007-03-07
Posts: 319

Re: 7x05 Discussion / 12:00pm - 1:00pm

Good points:

-The Presidential twist. Perhaps a little obvious, but opens up a new can of worms that should propel the story nicely.
-The ending. Reminiscent of Jack shooting Nina in season one, it's the first time in a long while that 24 has had a true "how the hell do they get out of that?" cliffhanger.

Bad points:

-The thought that they may have already killed off Henry Taylor. He's just starting to become interesting!
-It was a bit lumbering as an episode, it didn't really go anywhere.


"The water is unpalatable, to improve the taste we added Whiskey. By diligent effort I learned to like it." Winston Churchill

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#12 2009-02-02 15:48:17

J_A
Administrator
From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
Website

Re: 7x05 Discussion / 12:00pm - 1:00pm

yeah, steve, i felt the same about henry taylor. I like the dynamics at the white house. but luckily it was only a semi-silent clock, so there's hope yet. I did love jack shooting renée (I almost wrote nina!). but other than that, like I said in the article - nothing new in the west.

http://24fans.com/2009/01/nothing-new-in-the-west-first-thoughts-on-episode-5/


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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