Doctor Who - Series Four

Steveb · 2008-05-21 09:43:20

I read that and thought of you Dan. lol. I think it's excellent news, while Davies has done a good job with the series I think it's a good move to let someone else takeover and try to take it in a new direction and there's no one better than Moffat for the job. His episodes have consistently been the best.

hardy24 · 2008-05-21 10:44:13

It really made my day yesterday, I guess the real question now is will Moffat ask Tennant to stay on past the 2009 specials, or will he want to cast his own Doctor?

Steveb · 2008-05-21 20:00:50

I think he'll ask him to stay at least for the moment. Tennant is one of, if not the best suitable mainstream actor on british television at the moment and it would be foolish to replace him in order to make his mark.

Minerva · 2008-05-21 20:23:19

noooooooo! they can't replace him!I've just stated to see the serie! it is not right! he is so.....i dunno....briliant!

Last edited by Minerva (2008-05-21 20:30:45)

hardy24 · 2008-05-21 20:25:56

You could be right, although if you think that after Davies last episode that Tennant will have played the role for 4 years, I think perhaps Moffat may simply want a clean break, and either Tennant has to be commited to Moffat's plans long term or agree to do a small arc leading up a regeneration early in the fifth series.

hardy24 · 2008-06-01 20:30:51

Just seen episode 4x08, Silence in the Library, great stuff, really gripping, classic Moffat.

Any guesses as to who the woman who knows the Doctor is?, also do you think this is Moffat setting up the Series Five companion?

Steveb · 2008-06-06 18:17:35

By fara and away the best episode of this series so far. Glad Moffat got to write a two-parter that is at the business end of the series as, by reputation the second two-parter is always one of the strongest two parters. Great story, great cast, great acting and as is typical of a moffat script, it taps into a childhood fear, while rewarding the geeky fandom types (like me!), in this case, annoyance at spoilers.

I wondered if the woman is a wife as they've been playing the family angle very strongly. Alternatively, yes it could be a future companion, but that does require Tennant to be around for at least the opening half of season five. I wonder exactly what has been going on behind closed doors at Who Towers.

hardy24 · 2008-06-06 19:31:56

Steveb wrote:

I wondered if the woman is a wife as they've been playing the family angle very strongly. Alternatively, yes it could be a future companion, but that does require Tennant to be around for at least the opening half of season five. I wonder exactly what has been going on behind closed doors at Who Towers.

I've been wondering if perhaps hold that key skill of recognising the doctor despite a regeneration, like Captain Jack seemed near the end of Series Three, which would perhaps not require Tennant to be around.

hardy24 · 2008-06-07 22:46:04

Steve, if you haven't seen part two yet, then find a quite place, delay the start of a performance if you have to, just sit down and watch it. It truly is great. Quite possibly the best episode(s) of the revived series.

Let me know you've seen it so we can discuss more.

Edit: Also if your not in the habit of watching Doctor Who Confidential, do be sure to make an exception and watch this weeks on iplayer. Looks of insights from Moffat, or insights about Moffat. According to Davies, he's been begging Moffat for another two-parter every year but he was always two busy to write one.

Steveb · 2008-06-08 09:13:29

Unusually, my entire house sat down to watch it together last night between football matches and without exception it was the only 45minutes where none of us said a word. Absolutely fantastic episode- if slightly surreal even by Doctor Who's own standards.

This is maybe only the fourth time in the course of the new series that it's felt like they're really reaching the top of their game. Oddly, two of the other three times were Moffat's episodes from seasons one and three, the other being the Impossible Planet/ Satan's Pit episodes.

A really interesting fact that sort of sums up Moffat for me is that no-one has died of anything other than natural causes in any of his episodes without having been revived in some way afterwards. It seems to suggest that as big as the CGI explosions and dramatic gunfights get, there really is no replacement for smart story-telling.

hardy24 · 2008-06-08 10:31:28

I think I'd add the last episode of series 2 to that list of the show reaching the top of it's potential.

Kinda wish BBC had gone out of its way and shown parts one and two back to back last week to make up for eurovisions interruption.

Not sure about you, but I really found myself caring more about what happened to Professor Song than I did about what happened to Rose at the end of Series 2. That I think speaks volumes about Moffat's scripts.

Also, might be wrong but I got the feeling from the episode and the confidential afterwards that this was Moffat test-driving his vision of future Doctor Who. Which is a very exciting prospect.

Steveb · 2008-06-13 19:07:25

Yeah I can see what you mean about that. If so it's going to be a truly frightening and somewhat confusing place but frankly that's fine by me. The great strength of all Moffat's work is his ability to combine kiddie who and adult who successfully without it seeming at any time forced.

Yeah, Rose's demise is still a bit of a sticking point with me because at no point did I ever think she would die. The fact the s2 finale begins with that announcement meant I was waiting for the twist, and therefore how I felt about it mattered less. With River Song, it did matter when she died- possibly because of the veil of mystery surrounding her- and I was incredibly pleased that she survived (at least in some form!)

hardy24 · 2008-06-13 20:22:26

Steveb wrote:

Yeah I can see what you mean about that. If so it's going to be a truly frightening and somewhat confusing place but frankly that's fine by me. The great strength of all Moffat's work is his ability to combine kiddie who and adult who successfully without it seeming at any time forced.

Yeah, I thought it was great that part 1, with the fear of the dark probably scared many kids, while part 2 was more a "parents nightmare", with the "are your kids real", "whats happening to them when your not watching?"

Yeah, Rose's demise is still a bit of a sticking point with me because at no point did I ever think she would die. The fact the s2 finale begins with that announcement meant I was waiting for the twist, and therefore how I felt about it mattered less. With River Song, it did matter when she died- possibly because of the veil of mystery surrounding her- and I was incredibly pleased that she survived (at least in some form!)

Rose's demise was always felt as if it was sad because she was a liked character, how could it not be sad?, but to make and audience care about a new companion so much in two episodes, which a delicacy that you don't notice is great stuff, I mean did you actually think during part two, "oh they've kicked Donna out the main story to give the Doctor and River Song time to breathe", I know it didn't occur to me during the episode itself. And i'm incredibly pleased that there is a good chance we'll see her again with events the right away around.

Steveb · 2008-06-14 21:33:07

Have you seen Midnight yet Dan? Three things strike me about it:

1. It's very very weird both in content and style.
2. Donna is only not in it because she has to carry the episode on her own next week and scheduling demands requried her to be absent for an episode.
3. They were running out of money and thus needed an episode like this to exist.

I appreciate how cynical this makes me sound, and don't get me wrong I quite enjoyed the episode but those are the thoughts that stick out for me.

hardy24 · 2008-06-14 21:56:16

Okay, first let me say I do still like RTD and I think he's done a good job, but it's an interesting comparison when you think when NBC told Aaron Sorkin to write an episode which was shot entirely on existing sets and with only the regular cast plus a few established recurring stars, he came up "14 people", and RTD comes up with this. Hmm. Compare and contrast.

Anyway. Yeah, it was an alrite episode, but really I wouldn't have complained if they'd scrapped the episode entirely and made the season 12 episodes instead.

hardy24 · 2008-06-21 22:22:51

Okay, so "Turn Left", the sort of finale prelude, I thought it was great fun, even if the reset of the timeline was signposted with a massive neon sign.

Great to actually have Rose back, after all the teasing.

And if RTD can pull all the threads together in two final episodes, with it all making sense, he will deserve a medal, because if i'm reading this right, it's not just a season finale, it's effectively a finale for all the four seasons, that plus it positively bursting at the seems with companions and guest stars. I mean we've even got most of the Torchwood team crossing over it would seem, plus many others. Crazy.

So, I invite reviews of "Turn Left", plus predictions for the final two episodes, which are called "Stolen Earth" & "Journey's End", My prediction is atleast one major fatality, Donna or Rose possibly, maybe the Doctor narrowly avoiding having to regenerate.

Steveb · 2008-06-27 21:42:13

A brilliant if, at times, incredibly dark episode. Rose's return was good although posed as many questions as it did answers. The idea that the world without the Doctor would effectively be destroyed was an excellent one, nicely reiterating the Doctor/ Saviour theme they've been running for god knows how long.

Tomorrow night's episode and next week's look certain to be fantastic. I'm hoping it doesn't end with another Deus Ex Machina cop out and that the sheer volume of characters they've included doesn't overwhelm them as multi-companion stories have done in the past. I'd agree with the fatality angle, I'm expecting Donna to do (and i'm cringing as I write this) do something NOBLE.

hardy24 · 2008-06-28 10:02:23

Steveb wrote:

A brilliant if, at times, incredibly dark episode. Rose's return was good although posed as many questions as it did answers. The idea that the world without the Doctor would effectively be destroyed was an excellent one, nicely reiterating the Doctor/ Saviour theme they've been running for god knows how long.

I'm not quite sure I like the Doctor as Saviour angle really, I mean I know he's good, but something about it just feels a bit wrong. Like there should be something in between the Doctor making everything okay and doomsday. But all the same I enjoyed this "year that never was" episode more than the one at the end of last year.

Tomorrow night's episode and next week's look certain to be fantastic. I'm hoping it doesn't end with another Deus Ex Machina cop out and that the sheer volume of characters they've included doesn't overwhelm them as multi-companion stories have done in the past.

I'm thinking they've got some way of coping with it, and it'll be back to the better multi companion episodes like the final episode of Series 1 with Rose, Captain Jack had a large amount of likeable red shirts.

I'd agree with the fatality angle, I'm expecting Donna to do (and i'm cringing as I write this) do something NOBLE.

Honestly, I thought you were a serious actor, but thats you effectively begging to do Panto.

Steveb · 2008-06-28 13:14:39

Thanks Dan. I wrote it more because I'm expecting the line to be used somewhere about ten minutes before Journey's End finishes.

hardy24 · 2008-06-28 19:05:12

Okay Stolen Earth has just finished, and well I almost threw something heavy at the TV.

Won't say much more if you haven't seen it, if you have seen it, I simply ask, will it actually happen or are they playing with us?

Steveb · 2008-06-28 21:22:52

They have to be playing with us. They surely aren't going to replace him for the final episode of the season. My guess is that the time jump will have something to do with keeping him in his body.

Possibly one of the darkest, most breathtaking episodes I've ever watched. Highlights for me, the return of Harriet Jones, Daleks in general- particularly Dalek Caan, the episode being a summation of four series of mythology and continuity.

Lows: Rose being annoyingly stroppy throughout, the Shadow Proclamation being a bit rubbish, the bees being aliens.

hardy24 · 2008-06-28 21:59:25

Steveb wrote:

They have to be playing with us. They surely aren't going to replace him for the final episode of the season. My guess is that the time jump will have something to do with keeping him in his body.

I am so completely split, I honestly don't want to lose Tennant as the Doctor right now, but I also don't want any way of fudging or reversing a regeneration because then I think the process would lose something.

Still, possible ways out, the "1 second out of sync" thing like you mentioned, or possibly something to do with that bubbling hand in a jar of the doctors he lost in the first christmas special.

Do you think it's possible to have a "half regeneration"? or possibly interfere with the process somehow to add some element of control, so that the end result is the 11th Doctor but one that is still played by DT? Just musing really.

Possibly one of the darkest, most breathtaking episodes I've ever watched. Highlights for me, the return of Harriet Jones, Daleks in general- particularly Dalek Caan, the episode being a summation of four series of mythology and continuity.

Yeah, although I don't think they've really done all the mythology and continuity jusitice just yet, I want more.

Lows: Rose being annoyingly stroppy throughout, the Shadow Proclamation being a bit rubbish, the bees being aliens.

Certainly not Rose at her best, the Shadow... was well shrug, might see more of them next week to justify there inclusion at all, Bees as Aliens?, whats wrong with that?

Steveb · 2008-06-28 23:16:31

The thing with the bees just seemed a bit pathetic. They've made such a point of referencing it to extremes throughout the season and giving it a great sense of menace, but it was then given over to a three or four lines of sped through dialogue.

hardy24 · 2008-06-29 10:04:54

Steveb wrote:

The thing with the bees just seemed a bit pathetic. They've made such a point of referencing it to extremes throughout the season and giving it a great sense of menace, but it was then given over to a three or four lines of sped through dialogue.

Hmm, okay.

Anyway, i've back and had a look at what Dalek-Caan was saying since supposedly he only talks the truth (a bit like a Cylon Hybrid), the two most important things I think are, his reference to the Doctor as "the three-fold man"? which i'm not sure what to make of, but it could be a suggestion of how to cheat a regen., also "everlasting death will meet the most faithful of companions", which is a bit cyrptic, since on current evidence so far, the most faithful would have to be Rose surely?, but there have been so many hints about something happening to Donna, that it's probably her. Then again, for a third option, the wording "everlasting death" makes it sound as if Captain Jack could finally get it well and truely without reviving, but then Torchwood is supposed to be back.

Argh, surely two-parters like this should be broadcast back to back.

hardy24 · 2008-07-05 15:11:50

Okay, so we've got just under three hours until the final episode and i'm going stir crazy, so i thought i'd post some final predictions. And even if no one reads these before the episode air, atleast they'll be up with a time stamp.

Okay, predictions starting with most sure.

- 10 and Rose get one proper scene together, but ultimately Rose goes back to her reality.
- 10 (DT) isn't the only Doctor we'll be seeing in this episode, atleast one other version (be it a previous, new or 'alternate') will appear and play a key role.
- 10 makes it out but is forever changed.
- Captain Jack meets "everlasting death"
- Donna is infact actually a timelady, and regenerates

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