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#1 2008-04-06 11:42:43

hardy24
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Doctor Who - Series Four

So the new series of Doctor Who started last night and it's available on iplayer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b009w049.shtml?src=ip_potpw) for those in the UK.

I thought there might be enough discussion, like in the Lost and Battlestar threads, where we could have one rolling thread for the entire season.

Season openers aren't usually the strongest episodes for Who, and this was much different, not a terrible episode, but certainly we know the show is capable of a lot more.

Donna was less annoying than I remembered her, and indeed her mimed conversation with the doctor was great. But I still find myself not quite "getting it" with Donna and indeed Catherine Tate, there are good moments of comedy for the character, and some good "deep" moments, but it still feels like a square peg in a round hole. But i'm willing to give her a chance, and especcially see how she does in the final three episodes (11-13), which if everything i've heard is true is gonna be something of a "companion-off"


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#2 2008-04-07 15:22:45

Steveb
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

I wasn't a huge fan of this episode to be honest, it all felt a bit... pedestrian, is possibly the best word. And aside from the brilliant but incredibly odd cameo by a certain blonde ex-companion there wasn't a great deal to make it standout from the ordinary.

Donna is growing on me. As an actor, I think Catherine Tate is superb when she doesn't try- which possibly sounds like an odd statement. Basically, when she tones it down and plays a character as it is rather than turning it into a caricature as is the case of many of her sketch show creations she's superb. With Donna she's still bouncing from one to the other quite a lot but I think she'll settle down as the season progresses- in much the same way that Martha and Rose have done previously.

I'm also intrigued by how they're going to develop the Doctor this season. The suggestion of world-weariness and fear of losing someone else seem to have matured him as a character and I'm looking forward to seeing this (hopefully) carried through.

From what I've been reading about the end of the season it sounds like you're right Dan. It looks as if every companion who has ever travelled in this incarnation of the TARDIS will be present. Sounds like fun! The telling point will be when they reveal the title of episode 12 as apparently according to Russell T. Davies "it gives so much away".


"The water is unpalatable, to improve the taste we added Whiskey. By diligent effort I learned to like it." Winston Churchill

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#3 2008-04-07 18:22:02

hardy24
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

I thought the opening was quite good, as cliché as it was them missing each other for so long was done well. Although it did start to grate on me that someone could match the Doctor's methods beat for beat, with the same results. Seemed to diminish his standing somehow.

And oh, how many times does RTD think he can get away with "the Doctor's gonna save the day by pulling a big lever, but it'll still be exciting because he'll only just do it in the nick of time."

That odd cameo, I think was also completely unnecessary. Part from RTD needed his ego massaged by the endless "that was so unexpected, that was brilliant" comments. 

My biggest problem with Donna is that she seems to be fulfilling a list of criteria at the moment, all quite separate. Like appearing human and done to earth, being 'different' to Rose and Martha and being 'Catherine Tate' but not 'too Catherine Tate', plus various story exposition things.

On the finale actually, an uncle of mine has a theory about it, which is starting to appear spot on. I'll reproduce it below inside a spoiler tag, because i'm starting to believe it's spot on and is actually a spoiler, (although it could be wrong, and I don't think it takes the enjoyment out of the coming episodes ...

[spoiler]The thoery goes that RTD sees the various Dalek double episodes from the different seasons as one part of a four part story. But that actually when brought together the story is that of a "time-loop" or some such thing. As exampled by The Ninth Doctor's explanation of how the Dalek hordes he fought at the end of Season One must has survived for so long is almost a plot summary of the Daleks In New York two-parter from Season Three. Go back and watch and there is more evidence for it. Anyway, I'm starting to strongly believe the finale episodes will involve the creation of this time loop as well as it's other effects and fixing it.[/spoiler]


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#4 2008-04-08 07:56:48

hardy24
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

Apparently the episode 13 title is ...

[spoiler]War On Skaro[/spoiler]


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#5 2008-04-13 14:06:41

Steveb
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

I'm wondering how relevant the phrase "The Shaow Proclamation" is going to be, as it's been used in both episodes of this season and if I'm right the Christmas special as well.

I thought this weeks episode was really good. Tightly scripted, and very entertaining. Have to say I think that the dynamic between Donna and the Doctor is excellent. They seem to be playing them on an equal footing rather than the doctor being in charge and she being the dutiful assistant.


"The water is unpalatable, to improve the taste we added Whiskey. By diligent effort I learned to like it." Winston Churchill

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#6 2008-04-13 14:38:24

hardy24
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

Episode 2 was a big step up for me. Better script, and a better dynamic between the Doctor and Donna.

I believe "the shadow proclamation" is something which dates back to the first series, certainly I think I remember Rose saying it in the first christmas special, so surely she must have heard it somewhere in the first season.


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#7 2008-04-15 18:22:08

Steveb
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

Yeah I think it's been mentioned a couple of times in previous series, but then it's suddenly been mentioned twice in two episodes along with references to Rose and villains with dead planets.

Which actually is my only current bugbear with this series. The quality of the acting and the stories is superb but they keep crowbarring unnecessary references into the episodes and as such it's all feeling slightly forced.


"The water is unpalatable, to improve the taste we added Whiskey. By diligent effort I learned to like it." Winston Churchill

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#8 2008-04-15 19:24:44

hardy24
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

You might be right about the amount of references, although I think maybe it's better to judge such things over a season and not on a per episode basis.


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#9 2008-04-26 19:06:39

hardy24
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

Just seen episode 4 on iplayer, good stuff. and I do say that with a new episode of Battlestar fresh in my mind. Of course if the second part isn't up to it then it's wasted.

A few thoughts, good to see Martha back, and good to see two companions get on in contrast to school reunion when Rose and Sarah Jane didn't get on that well.


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#10 2008-04-27 10:48:32

Steveb
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

Brilliant episode. It does bother me that once again humanity has been fooled into believing something so incredibly stupid, but I suppose it's more true to life than I'd care to admit! Great to see Martha back, and I like the relationship development between her and the Doctor.

The anti-gun angle was interesting mainly becasue I'm not sure if they've done it before, if it's just for the purposes of contrast in the story or if they are trying to foreshadow once again. Speaking of which, this weeks "let's shoe-horn it in and hope they don't notice" reference seems to be The Medusa Cascade having already been mentioned in The Last of the Time Lords by the Master- and I remembering the BBC factfile making a point of saying we've never seen this happen and thinking nothing of it at the time.

Anyway, I digress. Overall, a superb episode. Funny, dramatic and nicely usurping our own culture for an alien threat once again.


"The water is unpalatable, to improve the taste we added Whiskey. By diligent effort I learned to like it." Winston Churchill

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#11 2008-04-27 15:37:55

hardy24
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

On the medusa thing, a review I read gave a great quote, "RTD's foreshadowing could block out the sun".

Humanity believing something really stupid doesn't bother me so much as every government on earth missing a great big honking space ship near earth yet again, as well as U.N.I.T. missing it, and without any effort in the script to explain it, not even a "hiding behind the moon" or "advanced cloak" line, nothing.

Also: how did Donna miss the atmos conspiracy thing when on the earth timeline only a few days ago she was searching high and low for any hint of trouble that might attract the doctor.

I quite like poking holes in things.


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#12 2008-05-04 10:05:36

hardy24
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

Episode 5, good tea time entertainment, although the actual alien plot was surprisingly similar to that of the episode 1.

The points worth mentioning, Rose's very quick appearance shouting what looked like "DOCTOR!!!!!"

Next Week, The Doctor's Daughter? That will either be great fun or an absolute complete disaster.

I did like the tardis going bersurk at the end, as a lead in to the next episode, that was a plot device they used a fair few times in the classic series to link different stories together.


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#13 2008-05-04 23:55:24

Steveb
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

Good episode. Delivered everything that was promised in the first part and had some very nice moments. The switch at the end was very obvious but I think it worked because of that. Favourite moment for me the Doctor saying "Are you my Mummy?" when putting the gas mask on. Brilliant reference.

The Rose appearance didn't annoy me as much this time, although I'm hoping they'll stop there until it gets to the appropriate episode as I think anymore could get annoying.

Next week's episode is one I've been looking forward to since I first heard about it. It's ambitious to say the least, but I think it'll be fantastic.


"The water is unpalatable, to improve the taste we added Whiskey. By diligent effort I learned to like it." Winston Churchill

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#14 2008-05-05 12:43:36

hardy24
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

"Are you my mummy" was the best line of the episode for me, which shows Stephen Moffat's brilliance I think, that his was the best line in the episode, even though he didn't write the episode. Also brings up a good point that it's nice to see the revived series start to have enough history now that the ironic nods to past stories can come from the revived series instead of just Classic Who.

I need to go back and look at Rose's appearance again, because I think it's placement in the episode and what was going on when it appeared have some significance. I think we may be done with the Rose appearances until she comes back in episode 11, although with RTD also writing episode 10, maybe 10 will actually have her appear properly a little earlier than announced.


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#15 2008-05-10 19:32:05

hardy24
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

Episode 6, decent enough, although the whole episode was obviously started life as the concept of "wouldn't it be cool if the doctor had a daughter" and was built up from there, which I always think is a shame, when an episode is a vehicle for something else, it's simply a cover. 

Was half thinking, Jenny would regenerate and she'd be Rose, but I guess that would have been a little too odd, and slightly creepy, come to think of it.


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#16 2008-05-11 11:30:35

Steveb
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

I quite enjoyed this one, which is impressive as I thought I'd hate it. Some incredibly large plot holes, but a neat little romp nevertheless. Given where they seem to be taking things at the end of the season, it worries me that they haven't yet figured out how to use more than one companion effectively. Martha's "lets crawl along the surface" role felt very unnecessary, as if they were having to fulfil Freema's contract more than anything else.

I thought the acting by Tennant, Tate and Moffatt was superb, really nicely triangulated and beautifully balanced. I remember reading RTD say something like when you have actors of this calibre you have to find ways to challenge them, and they very much did that. And credit to the cast for rising to the occassion so well.

Third episode in a row that's seen the decrying of violence and death- not in itself unusual, but more glaringly obvious than usual. Either there's been a memo sent round by Ofcom or its another cog in the trundling behemoth of the Doctor Who foreshadowing engine.

The cynic in me is waiting for Jenny Who: Space Adventurer to fill the gaping hole left in the schedules by Grange Hill.


"The water is unpalatable, to improve the taste we added Whiskey. By diligent effort I learned to like it." Winston Churchill

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#17 2008-05-11 20:06:36

hardy24
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

Steveb wrote:

Some incredibly large plot holes

Yep, you could drive Jenny's cool space ship through some of them.

Given where they seem to be taking things at the end of the season, it worries me that they haven't yet figured out how to use more than one companion effectively. Martha's "lets crawl along the surface" role felt very unnecessary, as if they were having to fulfil Freema's contract more than anything else.

I think it was an honest attempt at showing the other side of the story, it's more that it didn't really need telling in great detail that was the problem.

I thought the acting by Tennant, Tate and Moffatt was superb, really nicely triangulated and beautifully balanced. I remember reading RTD say something like when you have actors of this calibre you have to find ways to challenge them, and they very much did that. And credit to the cast for rising to the occassion so well.

Yes, the highlight of the episode, the exchanges between those three.

Third episode in a row that's seen the decrying of violence and death- not in itself unusual, but more glaringly obvious than usual. Either there's been a memo sent round by Ofcom or its another cog in the trundling behemoth of the Doctor Who foreshadowing engine.

Yes, possibly, just the way it worked out I think.

The cynic in me is waiting for Jenny Who: Space Adventurer to fill the gaping hole left in the schedules by Grange Hill.

No, I don't think so, a Rose spin off was considered but then dismissed as "one to many", I think her being a companion in one of next years specials is much more likely I think. Unless ofcourse they've completely loss their heads and think they can cram her into the already chock a block episodes 12 and 13 (which I now here will be rose and co as well as donna and co).


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#18 2008-05-12 00:45:20

Steveb
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

With regard the return of the companions, I think it's only those who have travelled in the Tardis, which would mean Jenny couldn't be amongst them. I'm remaining very sceptical about what they're doing until I see it, it seems more and more likely that they're going to have to kill someone.

As for the number of companions, I think my problem with it is that when they've had multiple companions they haven't done a lot with them. In the final episodes of s3 they brought Captain Jack back and his role was to be chained up and not really do anything. It didn't need to be his character it could have been anyone in particular and if they're bringing back such a large number of them then they need to utilise them for the characters they are and not in such a generic fashion.


"The water is unpalatable, to improve the taste we added Whiskey. By diligent effort I learned to like it." Winston Churchill

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#19 2008-05-16 15:12:07

Minerva
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

Hi! I downloaded a couple of episodes of doctor who! they are really cool! now I understand why you like it! I have to see them in english but...who cares!

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#20 2008-05-16 16:48:47

hardy24
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

Minerva, do me a favour try watching this - >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b00bbpsb.shtml?src=ip_mp

It's the official website of the UK Public Service broadcaster who makes Doctor Who, they make all there content available online for 7 days for people to rewatch, and i'm curious if someone outside of the UK can still watch.


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#21 2008-05-17 14:42:21

Minerva
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

unfortunatly I had already tryed! It doesn't work! I suppose I've to keep on downloading it from bittorrent

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#22 2008-05-18 13:30:28

hardy24
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

Episode 7, Agatha Christie, prefectly fine, if a little, "ho hum", and now we have to wait two weeks for the first of Moffat's two parter since it's eurovision next week.


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#23 2008-05-18 18:55:27

Minerva
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

yeah I've seen it too! nice way to shock a person:D! Donna is really bad in mimes however...I laughted a lot!

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#24 2008-05-18 22:50:35

Steveb
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

Very nice episode, if possibly slightly too clever for its own good. Great performances and a very intelligent script, but it did rely on a good knowledge of the source material. The alien threat felt a bit redundant to be honest, as if they could have thrown anything in and it wouldn't really have mattered, they were having far too much fun with the murder mystery.

On a different note, Steven Moffat's two-parter looks incredible. According to RTD he has been quite reserved in his scaring up to now, which, given his previous offerings, suggests something terrifying to say the least.


"The water is unpalatable, to improve the taste we added Whiskey. By diligent effort I learned to like it." Winston Churchill

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#25 2008-05-20 15:26:05

hardy24
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Re: Doctor Who - Series Four

It's time to jump up and down and thank the gods, because Stephen Moffat is officially taking over from Russell T Davies as Chief Executive & Head Writer. It looks as if Davies will be in charge for the 2009 specials and Moffat will take over from the fifth full series in 2010.

Links
http://www.gallifreyone.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?id=EkEEkAyuFuDUQWwpTO&tmpl=newsrss&style=feedstyle
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/may/20/bbc.television2

Excuse while I jump up and down some more.


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