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#1 2007-08-29 22:28:47

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
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Season 3 - all episodes

here we go! Carlos Bernard's, mine and MFL's favorite season is on next big_smile

MFL and I will be watching eps 1-4 together this weekend - and this time we'll physically be in the same room big_smile

but smitten - or anyone else - if you've already started watching, feel free to start the discussion.


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#2 2007-08-30 14:04:50

smitten
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Registered: 2007-04-12
Posts: 169

Re: Season 3 - all episodes

OK, well I will start us off with some more thoughts on torture!

There is a big time gap between seasons 2 and 3, and also a big gap in terms of where the characters are. Because torture was such a hot topic with the recent season, then when we went back to season 1, tih almost no torture, I've been asking myself where and how it all kicks off. And in what I've seen so far in season 3 (first 4 eps) there are two references that really strike me, although they're not in themselves all that dramatic. The first is Jack's remark that Salazar (I keep wanting to call him Slytherin) does not respond to physical interrogation. And we just know that Jack knows this because he's already tried it. Thoroughly. The second is when Jack and Chase catch the junkie and try to get info out of him - Jack gives Chase the nod and Chase stands on his bullet wound. OK, we get the picture that these two work well together and each anticipates the other's move, but what it reveals is that systematically hurting people has become, for them, routine. And that's a big step up from seasons 1 and 2.

BTW, I picked up in the library a book called The Interrogator's War: Inside the secret war against Al Qaeda by Chris Mackey. Its the memoirs of a US army interrogator in Afghanistan and is very interesting - at times sidesplittingly funny, and at times really, not. It is, I suppose, the reality view on all of this, and not surprisingly, the reality is very very different from fiction. Good background reading for fanfic writers!

The other thing I noticed was absent from season 1 is Jack's choke hold which he uses when he wants to take a friendly out of action temporarily (e.g. Curtis, FBI, etc). He doesn't use it at all in seasons 1 and 2. Here, we see him use it on Chase for the first time. Maybe he just learned it at a study day. (Incidentally, does anybody know if such a thing really works? It reminds me so much of that thing Spock does on the shoulder in Star Trek).

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#3 2007-09-01 07:59:04

ahhhkiefer
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Registered: 2007-08-29
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Re: Season 3 - all episodes

I really liked the way season 3 kicked off.  The only thing that really disappointed me--and which was actually brilliant as a set-up for the surprise later--was that we were dealing with another mole-inside-CTU plot.  I sorta groaned, thinking, you know, we've done this before!  Anyway, brilliant conversion of this later, of course!

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#4 2007-09-01 08:43:42

J_A
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Re: Season 3 - all episodes

ahhhkiefer wrote:

I really liked the way season 3 kicked off.  The only thing that really disappointed me--and which was actually brilliant as a set-up for the surprise later--was that we were dealing with another mole-inside-CTU plot.  I sorta groaned, thinking, you know, we've done this before!  Anyway, brilliant conversion of this later, of course!

exactly. when we saw gael in tech1 and realized he was working with the salazars, that was my first reaction too. I love the way it started too. with the subtle introduction of tony and michelle's being married (the ring shot that they'd cheaply repeated in s6 with 2 other characters, but we'll get into that later), then tony running ctu, having grown into the role beautifully over the past 3 years, and david palmer's presidential self. nothing seems forced, and the slow unreveling of the virus plot is really good. love jack's introduction in the prison, and the relationship btw him and chase. kim and chase, on the other hand are not really my thing, but as a means to piss off jack - it's a very good idea. lol.

smitten, what is it with you and torture? I mean, don't get pissed off but haven't we done this before? there's really so much more to the seasons than that. if i were you, i'd stop beating a dead horse


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#5 2007-09-01 12:40:07

ahhhkiefer
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Registered: 2007-08-29
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Re: Season 3 - all episodes

I dunno, I guess it's because I just got here, but I don't mind discussing the torture thing...it's interesting to me in a twisted way.  It disturbs me about myself that when I watch Jack or the "good guys" do it and a) it gets results and b) saves some good guys, it kind of reinforces the presumptions that a portion of my countrymen have about torture and why it should perhaps be allowed. 

And the thing is, I totally don't agree with that!  But in a fictional universe, I let it slide.  (I've just started watching s. 4, and find it interesting that the first few episodes seem to present a more mixed picture, which is healthy, I think). 

I think fiction serves a really useful purpose in the world, where we can explore non-real situations and outcomes and (if we have the presence of mind to reflect on these things) assess our prejudices and reactions accordingly.  I find the torture aspects of 24 very provocative, because I consider myself pretty anti-torture (something along the lines of "Who would Jesus torture?"), and yet am, if not cheering Jack on, at least not leaping out of my chair to defend the baddies' human rights.  If you get what I mean.

Anyway, I do share smitten's curiosity re the choke hold, and also these injectable torture drugs (leave no mark...etc).  Are these in use?  I'm not a chemist or a doctor, but it certainly seems plausible given everything else they can do with drugs these days...

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#6 2007-09-01 15:46:38

J_A
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Re: Season 3 - all episodes

ahhhkiefer, it's nice of you to reply, but I actually asked smitten. I replied to your post in everything else, but that question wasn't actually directed to you. it's just that smitten has been bringing it up all the time and frankly, with everything in the press, i've gotten a tad bored with it. I don't actually mind them doing it at all - at least, as you say, in a fictional universe - , but i mean, there really is so much more to it than *just* that... I don't want the discussions of the show to be reduced to torture, that's all. smile

I agree with you that the torture aspect of 24 *was* provocative, and I will still agree that they're pretty brave in some of the things they do, but to tell you the truth, I also understand that ppl have become weary of it - especially since season 6 - which I assume you haven't seen yet.

actually, I don't think there are drugs that leave absolutely no marks, and especially, with 24, as they use drugs to extract information, ppl seem to recover really fast cause we don't really have time for prolonged recovery sessions, but in real life these things would take much longer.


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#7 2007-09-03 08:06:52

smitten
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Registered: 2007-04-12
Posts: 169

Re: Season 3 - all episodes

So, Jack Addict, you're bored with a subject and I shouldn't post about it? I'm afraid that doesn't work for me. As for reducing the discussion to torture, that I won't even dignify with a response.

I'm coming from a similar place to ahhhKiefer on this one - I want to understand why I react in a particular way, even if it's against what I think. I'm also interested in Jack's point of view - how he struggles with it, and how he changes through the seasons.

But, to change the subject, I love Chase. He's great with Jack, and makes him look so old! I wonder how Kiefer winds down after work when he's spent the whole day shaking, grimacing and covered in fake sweat?

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#8 2007-09-03 10:13:48

J_A
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Re: Season 3 - all episodes

smitten wrote:

So, Jack Addict, you're bored with a subject and I shouldn't post about it? I'm afraid that doesn't work for me. As for reducing the discussion to torture, that I won't even dignify with a response.

you see, since you are one of three people that are currently even posting here and i'm another one of those, if you want to actually discuss something it is a good idea not to push the others away. yes, i'm getting tired of the subject and i'm not the only one. but leave that aside for the moment, i'm not saying that I have to be happy with a subject for it to be discussed. i just won't reply to that any longer if i don't feel like it. which is my right just like it's your right to keep posting things i don't feel like discussing. but to clarify my point, I do want to know why it is that torture is the first thing that you always pick up on and need to thematize. so many articles have been written on this topic, maybe you could go and read a few of those to find your answers.

and I still don't agree that pointing a gun at someone is torture. but opinions differ.


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#9 2007-09-08 10:34:02

M F Luder
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Registered: 2007-03-07
Posts: 69

Re: Season 3 - all episodes

Alright everyone. Cool down a little, no need to be at each other's throats, ok smile. People can't always agree on everything.

And try to get back on subject.


Hehe, yeah smitten I agree, Chase is a good character. Seems to (most of the time big_smile) work well with Jack. But doesn't appreciate being sidelined, and why should he, he is just doing his job. Regardless of the fact that Jack wants to keep him out of harmd way if he is dating Kim. Uhhmm, wrong line of work for that.

Gael, the first time I saw what was going on, my reaction was "Not again!". But they played it pretty well, even if Kim was again the one who had to get into trouble again for discovering it big_smile.

The whole scheme that Jack, Tony and Gael devised is immensely ellaborate, I've only now started to realise it, trying to figure it out. So many things to take into account and even then, so may things go wrong during the day that affect the operation. Tony gets shot, Chase goes rogue and heads to Mexico and then some other tihngs still to come....

Ahh, then there's Tony and Michelle. I really liked the way they brought up the fact that the two are married. The rings, hehehe. They work well together, running CTU. And they also bring out the personal aspect into CTU and to the show in general, jmho. Some of my favorite discussions between them is in these eps.

"I'll go anywhere with you, as long as I don't have to cook."

"Sweetheart, if you promise not to cook, I will take you with me anywhere" smile

That being one of them.


Oh, the angst. The look on Michelle's face when she found out Tony had been shot. And yet, she had to stay at CTU as there is no one else, essentially. That has got to be hard. She couldn't really deal with it as she had to keep things running. Aww sad. And then when Ryan does come in, he isn't about to let Michelle leave. *sigh*


ifyoueverleave.jpg
Tony Almeida: Oh, rules apply to other people, but not to you, right Jack??

Tony Almeida: Well, uh... it's like this. Either fire me, or get out of my chair.

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#10 2007-09-08 15:36:41

J_A
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Re: Season 3 - all episodes

not to mention the part where michelle realized tony had been hiding things from her for a month and she had no idea. that really was heartwrenching. you could just see the hurt and feel it; tony, bless him, he definitely didn't feel good about hiding things from her, and clearly was feeling bad and guilty - as he usually does - about deceiving her.

"you don't have to explain."

"no, I *want to* explain... I trust you with my life. But this job is what it is."

even though michelle is usually somewhat better at separating the wife from the agent, here, it is quite obvious that she can't do it completely. then again, who could. it's just one of the things that they never really get to talk things through,the two of them. not this, not other things still to come. and then the season ends like it does... you can just see hard times up ahead.

and to quote MFL during one of the eps, "Murphy had a field day." wink. she's right, so many things need to work here, and so many can and do go wrong. chase going rogue, going dark, the transmitter being broken (and CTU, what about a back-up? 2nd tracker? hmm.. )..

loved the prison break scenario, and jack's offering to give up himself for the mission, "I understand mr. president. this will be my last assignment" and then palmer's reaction to finding out the truth about the mission... he was steaming, clearly, and why wouldn't he. not being informed, played for a fool, lied to by the agent he trusts most... but as he likes to say, he does the right thing...

I also noticed - with MFL's help - how cold wayne actually is. when anne's husband dies, or rather kills himself right in front of her, wayne's first and foremost thinking about handling the situation and then at some point he remembers he should probably say he's sorry about ted. oh well. it wouldn't be interesting if all characters were compassionate and nice. the contrast is refreshing.

then finally, chloe. lol. i have to admit i didn't really like her when i first watched the season, but I guess due to the circumstances we've ended up with in the last 3 seasons, I grew to like her and now my reaction to her is quite different. she is a comic relief, even if that may feel out of place for a show like 24. but then again, a small laugh every now and then isn't too bad, even in this context.

I'm changing the title of this thread to include the entire season, since the reasons for splitting the discussion aren't exactly valid anymore.


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#11 2007-09-08 16:05:21

ahhhkiefer
Member
Registered: 2007-08-29
Posts: 8

Re: Season 3 - all episodes

I've said elsewhere that I'm actually working my way through season 4 now.  But it's interesting to compare the two seasons, with 3 being relatively fresh in my memory.  One thing I do think is really strong about season 3 is that the threat--this Cordilla virus--remains constant through the whole season (i.e. the whole 24 hours).  Even though the threat builds, and we are pulled & tugged through several variations of who's really behind it, the menace is the same.

I think it's a weakness of season 4 that although the villain is the same the whole way through, there are so many different threats stacked up within hours of each other.  It really does stretch the limits of plausibility.

Hope I haven't violated any spoiler protocol...

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#12 2007-09-09 10:30:18

J_A
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Re: Season 3 - all episodes

ahhhkiefer wrote:

Hope I haven't violated any spoiler protocol...

well as long as we don't end up discussing season 4 here in this thread wink...

as for villains, you see, seasons 1-3 (and I think s4, too), had one major villain in play in the first half of the season, then a second one in the second half of the season. i liked that because it allowed you to get to know the bad guy, start feeling something for him, and then when his story was over, he was replaced by someone else. the problem with - from what I remember from my one-time viewing of s5 and 6 - is that they had way too many villains and didn't allow you to grasp the hierarchy or to learn to hate one specific guy and that's a major weakness, imo. a villain should really be evil, not just badly behaved - but in order to feel that, you have to get to know him.

there, now back to season 3 wink. one thing about the whole story is that you get the feeling of, oh this whole virus thing is a hoax, a few times by the time gael is uncovered as a "mole" and they catch kyle singer and then realize he's not infected, that when the actual virus comes into play you're inclined to believe that's a hoax too. but then, things change.. more about that as I rewatch the rest of the eps. the threat is constant though, the tension never fails, the feeling of 'omg, what now' never really wears off, and then there's that elaborate plan that has so many elements that have to work out that it makes you constanly worry about how in the world it can work out...

i can't wait for amador and then saunders to come into the picture big_smile. best part of the season yet to come cool


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#13 2008-02-13 20:22:14

Past Present Fortune
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Registered: 2008-02-13
Posts: 146

Re: Season 3 - all episodes

Season 3 was great but I can't say that it's my favorite season. What I can say about the season though is that it did have one of the best season finale endings ever, for anyone who can't remember (shame one you), I'm on about the beautiful break down scene performed by Kiefer Sutherland (Jack Bauer in his car... it bought a tear to my eye.

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#14 2008-02-13 22:29:21

J_A
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Re: Season 3 - all episodes

lol. if you think there are people here who're actively posting and can't remember you're totally wrong tongue. we're addicts, understand? addicts! big_smile and for what it's worth, s3 IS my favorite season smile.


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#15 2008-02-13 23:03:17

hardy24
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From: London
Registered: 2007-02-28
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Re: Season 3 - all episodes

jack_addict wrote:

lol. if you think there are people here who're actively posting and can't remember you're totally wrong tongue. we're addicts, understand? addicts! big_smile

By that she means we've discussed the show from every conceivable angle,

and for what it's worth, s3 IS my favorite season smile.

And by that she means, it's got more Tony than any other season.


put your hands in your pockets looked away : andsmiled.com : blog

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#16 2008-02-14 22:46:25

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
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Posts: 1,436
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Re: Season 3 - all episodes

hardy24 wrote:
jack_addict wrote:

lol. if you think there are people here who're actively posting and can't remember you're totally wrong tongue. we're addicts, understand? addicts! big_smile

By that she means we've discussed the show from every conceivable angle,

oh, and have you noticed, dan is my official translator these days tongue

and for what it's worth, s3 IS my favorite season smile.

And by that she means, it's got more Tony than any other season.

and it is the best tony season overall - the one where Almeida certainly becomes God - and a fallen angel in addition to that wink


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#17 2008-02-15 10:04:53

hardy24
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From: London
Registered: 2007-02-28
Posts: 981
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Re: Season 3 - all episodes

jack_addict wrote:

oh, and have you noticed, dan is my official translator these days tongue

And by that she means I rewrite everything she says in a different way, even though people could understand her, and it's starting to annoy her.


put your hands in your pockets looked away : andsmiled.com : blog

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#18 2008-02-15 19:38:05

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
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Re: Season 3 - all episodes

hardy24 wrote:
jack_addict wrote:

oh, and have you noticed, dan is my official translator these days tongue

And by that she means I rewrite everything she says in a different way, even though people could understand her, and it's starting to annoy her.

no, actually I find it utterly amusing big_smile. I've never had an official translator just for myself before big_smile. so keep doing it!


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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