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smitten

Member

Registered: 2007-04-12

Posts: 169

season two: episodes 13-18

Favourite quote:

Who do I report to?
You report to me.
No offence, but rumour has it you won't be around here much longer, so ... who do I report to?

Also, just happened to notice in the credits that Omar (the one flying the hoax nuke) is played by none other than our very own Marc Cerasini!

I've been thinking about the theme of torture while rewatching this time, working out what, if anything, is justifiable, and so far all I've managed to conclude is that it's quite hard to decide what is torture and what isn't.  Sometimes it's obvious (electrocuting someone till they talk), sometimes it isn't. Is pointing a gun at someone's head torture? In my book, yes it is. What about pushing them into a chair and not letting them out (like Jack does with Nina when he first suspects her at the beginning of season 1)? No, to me that's just being rough and intimidating. But what's the difference really, because Jack doesn't need a gun to kill ro hurt someone? Hmmm. Will need to think about his one some more.

M F Luder

Moderator

Registered: 2007-03-07

Posts: 69

Re: season two: episodes 13-18

Heheh, Carrie comes into play. Tensions mounting in CTU. Heheh. And then there's the Cyprus recording storyline.

Not to mention Tony .

Auda:"You Americans..."

Tony: (scoffs) "We Americans, what?"

Sorry to disappoint you smitten but it's Marc Casabani, not Cerassini, who plays Omar .

Torture,hmm. That is a complex issue, it can be so much more than physical torture. Threats, that kind of things. I agree with you on most accounts, but pointing a weapon at someone, torture? There I disagree. While it is, certainly, emotionally distressing, I wouldn't say it's torture. Now, if the weapon is pointed at a family member and they say unless you talk, they'll kill him or her, now then I'd say it is torture.

Jack is more inclined to use the physical kind, but he did resort to the mental one with ali. Since he seemed like the type who wouldn't care what they did to him physically.

---

Tony Almeida: Oh, rules apply to other people, but not to you, right Jack??

Tony Almeida: Well, uh... it's like this. Either fire me, or get out of my chair.

J_A

Administrator

From: CTU Zurich

Registered: 2007-03-05

Posts: 1,436

Website

Re: season two: episodes 13-18

the mid-season contains some of the best scenes of the season as far as i'm concerned. I'll probably comment on things that happend before ep13, cause i don't really remember what happened when exactly, but here's what i can think of right now.

best george scene:

- george's psychoanalysis of jack on the plane towards doom. one scene I still know by heart after all these years (the *entire* scene )

"Jack... you've had a death wish ever since teri died. the way things have been going for you this past year and a half this probably doesn't look like such a bad idea. you get to go out in a blaze of glory, one of the greatest heroes of all time, leave your troubles behind... this could be the easy way out, huh?... You still got a life, jack. you wanna be a real hero, here's what you do. you get back down there and you put the pieces together. find a way to forgive yourself for what happened to your wife. you make things right with your daughter and you go on serving your country. that'd take some real guts."

- jack's goodbye to kim that happened a bit before that; the one scene that had me crying back when i first watched it and a few times after

"how are you getting off the plane?"
"i'm not, sweetheart"

- tony and jack: some pearls of 24 are made in this season / these eps:

"Fine, keep the door open... As head of CTU you have the responsibility to-"
"God, you're gonna lecture me on responsibility, jack? i mean, come on. we both know how you work. you consider going against the grain some kind of a virtue!"
"Why are you talking to me like this?"
"Cause i got a job to do here and i don't appreciate being told how to do it."
hehe

- and then of course jack taking kate warner out of CTU

"Where the hell do you think you're going, jack?"
"i don't have time to explain."
[tony pulls a gun on jack] "let's find the time!"

the anecdote goes that tony and jack were supposed to really have a full-blown fight here, but since kiefer's kneecap was injured and tony broke his ankle while playing basketball (and was already afraid they'd kick him from the series for that) it turned out into, and I quote Carlos Bernard, "Basically, he sneezes and I fall!" LOL.

- And let's not forget Tony and Michelle getting together........ sweethearts - man, I just love'em!
I basically put together the best TM scenes in that video of mine that I uploaded on youtube the other day, but let's just mention one sweet TM moment:

"Listen, what we were talking about before..."
"Yeah, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have put you on the spot like that."
"Well, no, actually... I'm glad you did."
[Michelle gives him a doubful look] "You are?"
"Yeah. There's been something hanging between us since you started here."
"Yeah... Yeah there has."
"I made a decision a while ago to try and keep personal and professional stuff separate... But now, I, hey..." [grins sheepishly & looks at the floor bashfully and is DAMN CUTE ]

and then the DAMN PHONE RINGS! lol. they never really get a chance to finish talking things through.

about the topic of torture mentioned above, I have to agree with MFL. torture is a word used too easily, there are many nuances of coersion, violence, intimidation, and torture and run on many levels. I don't think the word should be used to describe the low levels of violence....

btw, one thing that occured to me as we mentioned this topic, jack usually resorts to physical torture but tony usually uses psychological methods. one other element serving nicely to delimit the two characters.

---

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

smitten

Member

Registered: 2007-04-12

Posts: 169

Re: season two: episodes 13-18

Sorry to disappoint you smitten but it's Marc Casabani, not Cerassini, who plays Omar .

Ah. Just goes to show how the eyes see what they're familiar with.

Torture,hmm. That is a complex issue, it can be so much more than physical torture. Threats, that kind of things. I agree with you on most accounts, but pointing a weapon at someone, torture? There I disagree.

You have a point, pointing a gun at someone wouldn't normally be called torture. Now, a couple of questions. When Jack threatens to take Cofell's stomach lining out (and thereby kill him) was that torture? I think most people would understand Cofell to be Jack's first torture. So what's the difference if it's death by a bullet in the head. Now, if someone put a gun to year head and told you to do something that you didn't want to do (say, chant "I hate 24") - would that cause you severe emotional distress? I think the immediate threat of being killed has to cause severe emotional distress, which is covered in the definition of torture (in Wikipedia).

I'm sure Jack wouldn't consider this torture. I don't remember him ever using the word. He would think about pressure, interrogation, intimidation, gaining co-operation. I suppose I'm trying to work out how 24 got from season 1 (with sparing use of torture) to seasons 4 and 5, where it really gets too much. And what I'm finding is that it's really quite hard to draw the line.

OK, enough serious stuff. The scenes in the plane are wonderful - I do love to see Jack and Tony facing off. Great line I had never noticed before: (Jack about Yusuf Auda)

He's got some trust issues.

Jack's talking about trust issues! LOL.