24 : Redemption - so who has seen it?

J_A · 2008-11-28 16:20:34

and who wants to discuss it?

24nut · 2008-11-28 19:26:59

I've seen it, i really liked it, i was a bit worried about Robert Carlyle being in it, not because of any doubts about his acting skills but whether him being a believeable "old" friend to Jack, and to my suprise it wasn't as expected, the interaction between Kiefer and Mr Carlyle was brilliant.

I have only watched the sky1 version and unfortunately i think its missing quite a lot of footage, i loved the whole thing, i didn't really have any complaints, oh yeah i did, it ended way to quickly. Hopefully i will get the extended edition delivered in a couple of days and i can give a more in depth opinion.

Im just glad 24 was back on tv!

J_A · 2008-11-28 22:38:59

I should be seeing it in a little while too... will post my thoughts then.

in the meantime, even almeidaisgod.com is back in play.... and there, I've read a spoiler about season 7, totally tony-UNrelated, and it states that [spoiler]Kim is returning for season 7...[/spoiler]
Now, while this might make some happy, I wonder just how necessary that is... it sounds like they're clutching on straws more and more and more. and memories of a badly handled Milo return come to mind...

and I wonder, have they REALLY learned from their mistakes?...

24roxmysox3 · 2008-11-29 00:41:43

i think they are learning...kinda.
I saw 24 redemption, but i recorded it so that once i finish seasons 5 and 6 the movie will make more sence, but it was pretty good actionwise. one thing i'm curious about is if Jack is really in africa, how are they gonna get him back to the US? I mean, getting him back in that helicopter will take near half a day or longer... and you can know if [spoiler]kim is gonna come back... just check imdb and see if she's there

So yeah...i just checked it and J_A was 100% right...Kim is back in the 7th season! lol hey happy thanksgiving to you all hope you had an awsome day... [/spoiler]
edited by J_A

I mean, if I put this information between spoiler tags, why didn't you do the same???...

Last edited by 24roxmysox3 (2008-11-29 00:53:30)

J_A · 2008-11-29 16:07:19

actionwise, I don't doubt it will be good, cause that's all that 24 has been focussing on in the past seasons. plus their f'n shock effect. it still doesn't mean it makes it GREAT. it would take so much more for that.

24roxmysox3 · 2008-11-29 18:07:52

you're right, and thank you for editing my post. I didn't put in spoiler tags because i havn't been here in a while and i forgot, so you dont have to be all rude about it... anyways, i like the action and the shock effect, because that's what makes the show GREAT.

hardy24 · 2008-11-29 21:30:52

The two-hour episode is good from an action point of view, and it's a very interesting two hours to see how they translate the show into another country and another format. But really this is a wasted opportunity ...

It gets swamped by trying to lead certain story lines into where they start off with episode 1 of season 7, whilst still trying to be a standalone two hours. With Jack's storyline they more or less managed this, but the Washington DC story was a real snooze feast, really dull and doesn't inspire confidence when you think it will be the main location for the series proper.

They would have been better off trimming the Washington stuff back, why they tried to do inauguration day is beyond me. This has been the show's great failing in recent years, trying to big be so BIG, meaning they have to paint everything in broad strokes and losing all the detail in the process. 24 is at its best when taking a microscope to situations, agencies and agendas and possibly telling broader stories when they naturally occur. Remember when the premise of the show was a CIA regional field office trying to keep a politician alive for a day while his was on their patch?

Switching the DC story from Inauguration to a fortnight before with scenes depicting the New President working with her Transition team to put together their plan for power when the Coup interrupts, and showing how what she said in private differed from what she was allowed to say in public since she's powerless to act and has to follow the current president's lead until sworn in.

In general Jack's side of the movie was the stronger, and what problems it did have would have been solved by having more time to breath, since it's biggest problem is it barely has time to firmly locate where Jack is emotionally before things start blowing up. But overall the movie does humanize Jack as a character more than we've been used to in recent seasons which is defintely a good thing.

On the discussion in the spoiler tags ...

[spoiler]... there is a slight nod in these two episodes that hinted at her return, though very subtle. I would welcome her return, I think overall she did well in the few episodes of she returned for in season 5 (though best not think about those episodes too much J_A), so just as long as it's not a flying visit and they've got a new angle, I don't see why not.)[/spoiler]

J_A · 2008-11-30 00:10:30

24roxmysox3 wrote:

you're right, and thank you for editing my post. I didn't put in spoiler tags because i havn't been here in a while and i forgot, so you dont have to be all rude about it... anyways, i like the action and the shock effect, because that's what makes the show GREAT.

that's your opinion, which I don't agree with. and in my opinion, which, again, is just that, focusing on action only makes it just another action flick. and NO, that is not what makes it great. what MADE it great where the characters and their back stories, which they effectively got rid of while the show became more and more like hollywood...

and I didn't mean to be rude, I just forgot to add some kind of a smiley to that post.

J_A · 2008-11-30 00:16:03

hardy24 wrote:

This has been the show's great failing in recent years, trying to big be so BIG, meaning they have to paint everything in broad strokes and losing all the detail in the process. 24 is at its best when taking a microscope to situations, agencies and agendas and possibly telling broader stories when they naturally occur. Remember when the premise of the show was a CIA regional field office trying to keep a politician alive for a day while he was on their patch?

exactly. on the one hand, you could say they've grown bigger and bigger, and once you grow THAT big, it's hard to go back. on the other, I thought that this was what they'd promised us - that they would go back to the roots, so I didn't expect things to get even bigger.

secondly, your review doesn't exactly fill me with confidence concerning the coming season. if you use the words 'wasted opportunity' here already, then I'm very reluctant to feel optimism for january. but then again, confidence is such a big word, and with the faults and failings of the later seasons, maybe it's too big a word to use in this context.

lastly, I was hoping that their going back to the roots would mean putting more emphasis on the characters again, on the collective, and move away from the hollywood-imposed big bang and big blood. from what you say, at least they do try to humanize jack more than they lately have, but I will be qualified to post more thoughts on that once I've actually seen this.

hardy24 · 2008-11-30 11:43:17

jack_addict wrote:

secondly, your review doesn't exactly fill me with confidence concerning the coming season. if you use the words 'wasted opportunity' here already, then I'm very reluctant to feel optimism for january. but then again, confidence is such a big word, and with the faults and failings of the later seasons, maybe it's too big a word to use in this context.
lastly, I was hoping that their going back to the roots would mean putting more emphasis on the characters again, on the collective, and move away from the hollywood-imposed big bang and big blood. from what you say, at least they do try to humanize jack more than they lately have, but I will be qualified to post more thoughts on that once I've actually seen this.

Don't get me wrong J_A, there is still a lot to like about 'Redemption', but I guess a school report card for it would probably read "Improving on recent standards, but could still do better", mainly because there are one or two mistakes that they have repeated.

Overall I'm trying to very much take it as a standalone piece and not the first two episodes of Season 7 because it wasn't written first. It was written after having 8 - 12 episodes of the season done, and so for effectively an afterthought it stands up very well.

I said "Wasted Oppourtunity" because well, it is, because if it had been written first, with the rest of the season a blank sheet of paper, with no dots to line up it could have been brilliant. It could have a sign to the people who doubted if 24 was still relevant and if it could work in longer form.

If only Fox had said before season seven started production "here's some extra money, make us a 90 minute TV movie about the emotional journey Jack's taken since the end of Day 6, our only condition is it's not all talking" ...

If only that had happened it could have been a double header to stand alongside the final two episodes of season 1 or episodes 14 and 15 of season 2.

On the whole, don't pass judgement until you've seen it, try and go into it with an open mind and just enjoy it. My viewing was perhaps coloured by having a very clear idea of what I wanted it to be.

J_A · 2008-11-30 12:05:32

hardy24 wrote:

On the whole, don't pass judgement until you've seen it, try and go into it with an open mind and just enjoy it. My viewing was perhaps coloured by having a very clear idea of what I wanted it to be.

Yup, hopefully I'll be able to see it this week. On a different note, please check your facebook for a message from The Event and reply to me asap.

24roxmysox3 · 2008-11-30 23:51:36

jack_addict wrote:

24roxmysox3 wrote:
you're right, and thank you for editing my post. I didn't put in spoiler tags because i havn't been here in a while and i forgot, so you dont have to be all rude about it... anyways, i like the action and the shock effect, because that's what makes the show GREAT.
that's your opinion, which I don't agree with. and in my opinion, which, again, is just that, focusing on action only makes it just another action flick. and NO, that is not what makes it great. what MADE it great where the characters and their back stories, which they effectively got rid of while the show became more and more like hollywood...
and I didn't mean to be rude, I just forgot to add some kind of a smiley to that post.

you're right... i guess what i'm trying to say is that the action and the suspense of the show makes it good, but your right in that when they try and focus on that it almost backfires and to many of the great characters end up getting killed off...

J_A · 2008-12-01 01:01:09

s6 was on tv tonight again. i didn't watch it, but while fast forwarding commercials on a couple of CSI eps I'd taped, I caught a minute or two of 24 inbetween that. and I didn't care for it at all. I caught a glimpse of philipp bauer and charles logan and that during the ep that explains their involvement in the whole thing, and it reminded me just how pissed off I should still be at all of them... and also reminded me again why I shouldn't trust them...

hope to see that movie this week, possibly, and I'm sort of interested to see if it will actually grip me AT ALL, or just have me sit back and watch like any other show.

ar9 · 2008-12-02 05:33:51

It's better to go in with no expectations. Being 24, I was pretty excited and slightly disappointed. On rewatch, I enjoyed it a lot more. The characters are much more fleshed out than last season. I actually cared if they survived, unlike season 6 where I was happy to see Curtis and Milo exit the show. In that regard, it was gripping. Jack's definitely more human than we've seen him in a while. It fits, too, because his character has gone through developments in the 3 and 1/2 years since the last season.

Hardy24 is right about the Inauguration part of the prequel. It takes away some of the tension from the Africa plot. Despite being connected to the coup, it doesn't FEEL like part of it. I think i'll come to appreciate this story more as the season progresses. The good thing about them making this half way through production of season 7 is that most of it should be relevant.

Rexy · 2008-12-02 14:37:36

Oh, you guys seem to think differently from me, which is interesting. After months of eager anticipation, I bought the UK DVD as soon as it came out and watched 24 Redemption. I thought it was OK, and I can see that the producers were trying to set up season 7, but after waiting a year and a half for some new 24 all I can think is that the producers got over excited about having a big budget, and spent more time worrying about helicopter shots and huge inauguration scenes than about the actual story.

Also, why oh why did they stick to the real time format? That really threw me, they had an opportunity to move away from that and they didn't take it. I really thought it lacked the tension and suspense of the show at its best, and I don't remember hearing a single classic Jack line, although there was a good one liner in there somewhere! Also I thought almost all the actors were fantastic as we have come to expect on this show, but I was, dare I say it, a little bit disappointed with Kiefer Sutherland's performance, which is saying something as I'm such a big fan and always watch his movies at the cinema, even if they get rubbish reviews because he's in it and I know he'll be great. Maybe he didn't feel the need to be so intense because it was only a couple of hours, and lets face it, he's had worse days. Basically, if I had gone to the cinema to see this, I would wait for the next one to come out on DVD.

However, saying all that, I also managed to watch the first 15 minutes of season 7, and it looked very promising. It was almost the best thing on the whole DVD! Therefore, I guess this DVD (which didn't even have an inlay card, cheapskates) will allow my 24 DVD collection to stay complete, but will rarely be watched again. I still believe season 7 could be the comeback they are promising, and will wait with baited breath, but as everyone knows, this is their last chance so they had better get it right, or I am going to have to move Prison Break to the top of my favourite tv shows list.

OK, I've just watched it again and I feel a bit bad for saying Kiefer Sutherland's performance wasn't as good as I'd hoped, it was pretty fantastic as always, I just think maybe he didn't have the right lines or something, I don't know. But, on a lighter note, what has happened to Jack Bauer's nasty hand scars from the Chinese? I want the number of his plastic surgeon, they appear to have totally disappeared

Last edited by Rexy (2008-12-02 18:55:31)

J_A · 2008-12-02 16:14:53

rexy, i haven't read your post completely yet, (just the beginning), because I haven't seen Redemption yet, but I want to ask you, when did you start watching 24? and which season was your first? and which season is your favorite? because differences in thinking among 24 fans usually fall into two camps:

the old bunch who've gotten into 24 for certain reasons and

the new nuch who've gotten into 24 for certain, different reasons,

and the two camps appreciate totally different things about the show.

the main bunch of us here belong to the 'old bunch'

Rexy · 2008-12-02 18:50:53

Jack addict, I hope I haven't given anything away in my post, apart from what I thought, sorry about that.

I have to say I have been faithfully watching 24 since season one, episode 1 aired in the UK in Winter 2001, and I just love the whole experience of watching the show, and getting totally sucked into a story in a way I don't think any other TV show does. I think it is because the writing was so good, and the story just worked really well. I definitely think that season 1 was the best, because it was so new and ground breaking, but also because when you watch it again, the entire season is so tightly written, there are so many tiny little details in episodes that don't make sense until much later, but on the second watching you can see them, it was obviously very well thought out before hand. I don't think the same could be said for season 6, although on an individual episode basis I thought it was alright, it just didn't have that one great story arc running all the way through. I thought it seemed as though they kind of made it up as they went along, which is why I have such high hopes for season 7, they've had long enough to think about it after all.

So, what reasons are the old and the new bunch into it for then? I feel like a right newbie

hardy24 · 2008-12-02 21:18:08

Welcome rexy, you sound like your in the "old" bunch, especcially from how you describe your views on season one. It is the standard I know I measure all 24 by.

I saw the sky broadcast version about a week ago, and I posted by long winded thoughts then earlier in the thread. But now having seen the first half of the "extended cut" on DVD, it diminishes a lot of my criticisms. Kiefer's performances makes more sense in the extended cut, it builds more slowly to the action and the more boring stuff in Washington now interferes less and actually comes as a welcome break at times to afford some perspective to the main African storyline.

J_A · 2008-12-02 22:15:40

Rexy wrote:

Jack addict, I hope I haven't given anything away in my post, apart from what I thought, sorry about that.

hey, I wasn't implying you had given anything away, i was just choosing to be more cautious than necessary . no need to apologize!

as for your post, yes, you're definitely in the old bunch, too . I guess we got into the show, at least I have, for much the same reasons. it was simply the best TV ever back in the day. it has continuously declined over the past couple of years, so my expectations of s7 really aren't that high to begin with. but I'll gladly stand corrected (though my hopes aren't that high).

in short, I'd say the old bunch appreciated all those little things, the complexity of the story, the tight story, as you put it, too, the unexpected, the characters, the personal level, and the action all at the same time. the longer the show went on, the more hollywood-flick-like it has become, and - without wanting to hurt anyone's feelings - I'd say that most of the new bunch appreciate more the action part, the explosions, the bloodshed, than all those little things that made the show great in the first place. also measured by their greater willingness to sacrifice anyone and everyone just for the sake of it, whereas, to me, at least, a major character's demise is acceptable when it serves the story, but just dying so that you're dead (cause the writers ran out of ideas for your character) is no an acceptable standard to me.

I hope you understand my rambling a bit more now

ar9 · 2008-12-03 03:28:29

I'd definitely say i'm part of the old bunch. Seasons 1-3 are still the 24 I rave about and defend against most criticisms. Season 4 is about the point where the show started to sacrifice character development in favour of action. The Logans were still awesome in season 5, though.

Without giving anything away, most of your complaints about recent seasons jack_addict aren't present in Redemption.

J_A · 2008-12-03 13:04:05

ar9 wrote:

Without giving anything away, most of your complaints about recent seasons jack_addict aren't present in Redemption.

good . I've received it today so I should be seeing it before long! oh, and since this is the thread about redemption, I'd say go ahead and discuss it freely, just warn of spoilers ahead

J_A · 2008-12-04 18:47:52

ok, just watched Redemption. fresh thoughts, not necessarily ordered coming up, you've been warned!

Africa: it wasn't as bad as I thought! although I still cannot quite get past the irony of jack seeking redemption in missionary work after everything. but then again, what I *can* live with is that he is actually there not so much for that but because he's been running from the subpoena, and thus is a fugitive from the law. yes, again. I like how that whole child soldier / protector storyline tied in and finally made him surrender and stop running, so that part of the story has been set. that's good.

there were exactly two quotes worth noting.
one: "People like us, Jack... We don't keep score by counting how many lives we've saved. But by how many we've lost."
two: Jack to the UN guy: "Why don't you go hide with the other children." now, that one had me grinning!

Jack's emotional state: he definitely is more human than he's been. he has some kind of a purpose, and seems to have gotten past his suicidal tendencies. also, the subtle hint at his unresolved relationship with Kim was nice, so yeah... I guess that explains that. I very much liked jack's friendship with his ex-special forces buddy, these deep relationships were something that I missed lately, so good job on that. the Many Questions Kid at the beginning was a cute trick, giving us a full blown questionnaire of jack's recent past, although it did feel somewhat contrived and forced. but yeah, they have to find some way of passing on information.

Washington: as has been mentioned, please take a wake-up pill! boring, dammit. The Inauguration Day, though important, and probably chosen so that it would lend the DC storyline some more global relevance and also to allow some screentime to both the ex president and president-elect, as well as introducing the twilighty character inside the White House (I'm assuming he's somehow connected to the WH!) who's been financing the African coup, it really does not add anything big to the show. But hey, at least we got a mafia-style homicide, along with burial in concrete! you don't get that on 24 all that often! . but honestly, who was surprised about what happened to that poor drug-addict? maybe I've simply watched too much 24, but his storyline was so linear and predictable that all I could do was simply consume it and move on.

finally, casting. I do NOT like Madame President. I can't help but look at her as a caricature because of her thin lips that always seem to be grinning even in the darkest of situations... possibly, too much facelifting? obviously, Nichols and Lennox had to be involved due to the transition but those of you who know me know that I've never liked them. I'm sorry about Jack's friend who died, Carl something, but again, it added yet another loss to jack's list of 'how many lives we've lost', and at least this guy's death had some purpose. But I wish he could have gotten a larger role, possibly extending beyond the movie. However, I do realize that the africa storyline is over as the movie ends, so yeah.. they would have had to have casted him for something different altogether. and obviously, I hated the guy at the embassy, but that was his character, and not the actor

overall, I didn't go in with any expectations, and certainly not with much excitement. I sat down, leaned back and let it entertain me, let it show me a story, and that's what I got. it didn't make me not want to pause it, not want to stand up for a drink or anything else (though I did not, but that was simply due to the fact that I wasn't thirsty), but it was a decent piece of work, somewhat too intent on connecting the two seasons, but entertaining nevertheless.

hopes for season 7 remain unchanged. I'm not putting it past them to make mistakes again, I'm not in the least expecting a perfect season, so my fears are not relieved. honestly, if I didn't know what I know about s7, Redemption wouldn't necessarily make me wanna watch it no matter what. But as they say, "Qui vivrà, verrà." Wait and see.

Sound off.

p.s. I know I said sound off, but... isn't Inauguration Day supposed to be in January and isn't it pretty damn cold in January? these actors are either very cold-resistant or someone hasn't been thinking much about costumes

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24 : Redemption - so who has seen it?

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