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#1 2007-07-31 14:31:50

smitten
Member
Registered: 2007-04-12
Posts: 169

Season two: episodes 7-12

Moving on, deeper and murkier. I've now watched to episode 10.

I really feel for Reza. Such an honest, decent guy (don't get many of those on 24) and so confused he doesn't know where to turn. Now he's copped it. The actor did such a great job. Actually warming to Kate a bit now, too. She's better when the gloves come off, with the torture scene.

One small point - I've listened to the conversation between Ali and his accomplice several times now (I suspect all these 'Arabs' are Israeli actors because they speak Arabic very slowly, and when in doubt they say 'yalla' or 'Allah hu akbar!') and I can't hear the word 'salat' (prayer) said even once. Hmm.

Backing up a little, to the plane crash, interesting how the kind of resuscitation given depends on the gender of the resuscitee. Jack generally gets chest compressions, but Nina needs mouth-to-mouth. Naturally.

Tony is getting much more fun, now. Backing up a little further in the season now, I hadn't noticed just how great Jack and Michelle are together, and how much screen time they get together. smile

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#2 2007-07-31 15:07:01

Steveb
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Registered: 2007-03-07
Posts: 319

Re: Season two: episodes 7-12

Yeah, I thought that when I first watched season two. It almost seems that the writers were looking at a love triangle angle of some description either between Jack/ Tony/ Michelle or Jack/ Kate/ Michelle. However, if that was considered I think it was wisely dropped- although I was never impressed with the Jack/ Kate storyline it was implausible in a way I didn't like, rather than in the "oh they've just blown that up a lot" way.

PS. Sorry for being absent for so long, I've been in Ireland for the last couple of weeks.


"The water is unpalatable, to improve the taste we added Whiskey. By diligent effort I learned to like it." Winston Churchill

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#3 2007-07-31 16:45:37

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
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Re: Season two: episodes 7-12

hehe. well I have to say, after having watched eps 1-8, how could I *ever* miss the signs that tony and michelle would get together? I mean, the first time tony comes back to CTU after the warner situation and michelle has her (requested!) breakdown so she can change clothes, and in the instances before, tony and michelle work so well together that they're PURRRRFECT big_smile!

Loved Tony interrogating Reza at the warner mansion. not sure which versions you guys have, but it's prob worth mentioning that if the first interrogation doesn't make much sense to you, you're likely to have the UK version of the DVDs where the references to the Finsbury Park Mosque in London have been deleted from. Now, as much as I understand the implications and the reasons the scene was cut, I do not understand the following: if the show itself was so brave as to start addressing these issues (and several copycats followed in return), why cut it from the DVD? ok, I know, we discussed this before, years ago when the DVDs came out, but from the pure Almeida Is God point of view, there IS something missing there big_smile. the FPM interrogation is one of Tony's greatest scenes in s2 and the way they cut it leaves you wondering, wtf happened here?

another moment of tony interrogation skills greatness is the second part of the interrogation, which begins like this:
"you transferred that money into those accounts!"
"I didn't transferr the money!"

in that scene, Tony pushes reza to make him confess, but then reza makes the mistake of glancing outside at his parents who are arguing in the yard. Tony, of course, catches this, and his only comment is, "Your parents."

then you can just see him thinking and making the call - the first of several psychological approaches he'll take in his carreer. "Alright, stand up Reza." and proceeds to cuff the guy. (on a side note, reza's being a head taller than tony and tony telling him to put his hands on the back of his head and then reaching *up* to grab his hands was hillarious lol). anyway, then he starts telling him how it'll break his parents' hearts to see him in cuffs - and voilà - reza "breaks".

just gotta love tony. Almeida Is God cool


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#4 2007-08-01 08:29:50

smitten
Member
Registered: 2007-04-12
Posts: 169

Re: Season two: episodes 7-12

jack_addict wrote:

it's prob worth mentioning that if the first interrogation doesn't make much sense to you, you're likely to have the UK version of the DVDs where the references to the Finsbury Park Mosque in London have been deleted from.

What!!! (jaw drops). The original mentions the Finsbury Park Mosque! What, did Reza worship there? Ahh!

I also don't understand why this was dropped (although, not having heard it, I don't know what was said). It's not as if anyone could accuse 24 of making this mosque notorious (that had already happened). What's more, given the story line (Reza being killed by Islamic terrorist) it demonstrates that not everyone connected with this mosque, or every Muslim, is a terrorist. Not even if they have an English accent.

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#5 2007-08-01 09:04:32

Steveb
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Registered: 2007-03-07
Posts: 319

Re: Season two: episodes 7-12

I think that there was an ongoing police investigation at the time and the BBC decided not to show the scenes for fear of compromising that. Why it isn't on the DVD though I don't know.


"The water is unpalatable, to improve the taste we added Whiskey. By diligent effort I learned to like it." Winston Churchill

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#6 2007-08-01 16:48:36

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
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Re: Season two: episodes 7-12

smitten wrote:

What's more, given the story line (Reza being killed by Islamic terrorist) it demonstrates that not everyone connected with this mosque, or every Muslim, is a terrorist. Not even if they have an English accent.

I agree smile

smitten wrote:
jack_addict wrote:

it's prob worth mentioning that if the first interrogation doesn't make much sense to you, you're likely to have the UK version of the DVDs where the references to the Finsbury Park Mosque in London have been deleted from.

What!!! (jaw drops). The original mentions the Finsbury Park Mosque! What, did Reza worship there? Ahh!

I also don't understand why this was dropped (although, not having heard it, I don't know what was said). It's not as if anyone could accuse 24 of making this mosque notorious (that had already happened).

ok, being that I know this by heart big_smile (no, I'm not an addict at all!  lol) I will tell you what the almeida verbatim is (btw. I have the UK version as well, but luckily I also have a video file of the complete interrogation).
I do understand why it's been deleted, I know there was a razzia at the mosque at the time and the mosque actually did turn out to be exactly what tony had said it to be. so it was too hot a topic to be included, but still. one of tony's better moments and too much of a pity to have been excluded.

so here goes *clears throat*. obviously, Tony begins:

"You're doing business with a known terrorist. And you're gonna sit there with a straight face and tell me you don't know what's going on?"

"I grew up in London. I'm marrying an American girl, a protestant... [smug look on his face] So, if you're gonna racially profile me, you should at least get it right."

"You ever hear of the Finsbury Park Mosque? It's considered to be one of the main recruitment centers for Islamic terrorists in the West. Now, their main targets are european muslims, with Western educations, passports and the potential to blend into the Western society. And do you know where that mosque is located? Your hometown, London. So tell me Reza, how's my racial profiling going now?"

"I want a lawyer."

"No."

big_smile Talk about the rights of a prisoner lol


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#7 2007-08-01 18:12:39

smitten
Member
Registered: 2007-04-12
Posts: 169

Re: Season two: episodes 7-12

jack_addict wrote:

"You ever hear of the Finsbury Park Mosque? It's considered to be one of the main recruitment centers for Islamic terrorists in the West. Now, their main targets are european muslims, with Western educations, passports and the potential to blend into the Western society. And do you know where that mosque is located? Your hometown, London. So tell me Reza, how's my racial profiling going now?"

Beg to differ. Unless Reza was a regular there, that's pretty weak. London's a big place with lots of people, lots of Muslims. Sorry, that's just tenuous and gratuitous. They probably edited it because they knew everybody would laugh.

(NB. Not suggesting that everyone who attended this mosque at that time was a terrorist, either. I can just see why, if he had been a regular worshipper there it would have raised eyebrows at CTU. And yes, I know the mosque has changed a lot since then.)

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#8 2007-08-01 18:58:18

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
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Re: Season two: episodes 7-12

smitten wrote:
jack_addict wrote:

"You ever hear of the Finsbury Park Mosque? It's considered to be one of the main recruitment centers for Islamic terrorists in the West. Now, their main targets are european muslims, with Western educations, passports and the potential to blend into the Western society. And do you know where that mosque is located? Your hometown, London. So tell me Reza, how's my racial profiling going now?"

Beg to differ. Unless Reza was a regular there, that's pretty weak. London's a big place with lots of people, lots of Muslims. Sorry, that's just tenuous and gratuitous. They probably edited it because they knew everybody would laugh.

Not that you're not right in some things you said. But I think the point was not to say that hey, Reza, in the big town of London there's this mosque, you know... Granted, by itself, that would be pretty weak. But remember that CTU believed at the time they had tied Reza to a terrorist. The idea was simply to weaken Reza's argument that only because he's marrying an american girl and has grown up in the west it doesn't mean he *can't* be a terrorist. The mosque is there, he grew up there and it is possible, it doesn't have to be likely, but it is possible - that he could have been recruited by syed ali. think about it again. wink

That's not to say that every muslim is a terrorist, like you rightly noted, but it also doesn't mean that there are none. I don't know if you're getting my point.

And to tell you the truth, hearing this for the first time i did not laugh (at least not because it was funny, but because Almeida is so great big_smile). and they certainly didn't cut it out because everybody would laugh, if they'd thought people would laugh and take it lightly they would have left it in there. i think to say that is a little bit of an insult to the show that was groundbreaking and brave at the time. that they edited it was the proof that they stirred spirits and if you aren't blind (that's a general 'you' and not pointing fingers at you personally, smitten), you would have to see that it has stirred spirits all along. up to season 6......


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#9 2007-08-01 19:41:03

Steveb
Moderator
Registered: 2007-03-07
Posts: 319

Re: Season two: episodes 7-12

Oh, I don't know. I think season six certainly stirred up some spirits, just not necessarily for the right reasons.


"The water is unpalatable, to improve the taste we added Whiskey. By diligent effort I learned to like it." Winston Churchill

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#10 2007-08-01 20:14:41

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
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Re: Season two: episodes 7-12

Steveb wrote:

Oh, I don't know. I think season six certainly stirred up some spirits, just not necessarily for the right reasons.

yeah that's right.but give me credit for not slashing it for once like I usually do lol
ok, to be honest, it stirred some spirits but the last act of courage was in s5 with a certain president.


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#11 2007-08-02 10:46:58

smitten
Member
Registered: 2007-04-12
Posts: 169

Re: Season two: episodes 7-12

Thinking about the Finsbury Park Mosque some more, the other thing that bothers me is that Reza (being of Iranian origin) is likely to be Shiite, while this mosque is probably Sunni. When they're not killing each other, do Shiites and Sunnis just pop into each other's mosques? I don't think so, please someone, correct me if I'm wrong. Which would give Reza the perfect retort to Tony's 'so how's my racial profiling now?'.

Tony's little speech about European muslims with western educations, etc, is just perfect. We don't know if it's true, what matters is Carlos says it convincingly so we believe him. It's a real gulp moment for Reza. Far stronger, in my opinion, without the FPM. Having said that, it probably was edited for all the wrong reasons, which is a shame! I don't mind a few feathers ruffled, but they need to get it right.

Moving on a little, as I've watched this week's portion, Kate's muslim dress is just awful. She's got the head bit all wrong, and looks more like a nun. I wonder if they had someone on set to show them how it's done? Still, her acting is better, which makes up for it.

The other thing I noticed this time round was how well they did the link-up to the Ali family (in their country) and the 'killing' of the kid. They have two gorgeous kids, I wonder how old they were really, but they look young. And they tie them up a gag them, and the kids look really scared. From the point of view of a child actor, I wonder how that all worked, but I am impressed with the end result.

Just a quick note about the dreaded cougar? I read in the Companion that Elisha was bitten on the hand by the trained cougar, which I suppose explains why it all pans out as badly as it did. They probably went to a lot of effort and expense to get the animal in in the first place, so wanted to make something of it. Elisha also says that the season was a learning curve for her in terms of asserting herself rather than accepting whatever plot she was given. She doesn't put it in quite those words, of course. Not their finest hour.

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#12 2007-08-02 21:27:31

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
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Re: Season two: episodes 7-12

alright, just watched eps 9 and 10. have to turn in now but I'll just post a few quick words. quick notes, really. don't have time for elaborate wording right now wink

thought 1) palmer crying. as far as i remember the only time he cried. when he gave nina the ok to kill jack at 4:55 pm. great scene btw jack and palmer there, and palmer and nina.

thought 2) jack and nina:
you know what nina, you're right, no i don't wanna just sit here and wait to die
if you kill me before they verify the information you gave them you'll be in violation of your pardon. they'll just slap your ass back in jail
and you'll be dead
i'm already dead

palmer and mike:
in the meantime where do you want her
in los angeles. let her share the fate of everyone she's endangered
*grin* yes sir big_smile

george's background noise comment - I know it's one of danhardy's favorite scenes, and it is very good big_smile

finally, Tony and Michelle! sweethearts, they're so gonna get together lol last time when we were watching the eps, I had this thought that it had been so obvious that tehy would have to end up together - I was wondering, how could anyone ever miss that wink. and now, after michelle talks to george and then tells tony how she feels... *thud*

I dont care how unlikely it is that someone would tell their boss - in such a situation - that, "if you wanted to go out sometime..." big_smile but I love that scene. I love tony and michelle. sweethearts that will always live in me big_smile. Almeida is God.

time to turn in now and dream of Almeida
J_A out.


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#13 2007-08-03 11:18:52

smitten
Member
Registered: 2007-04-12
Posts: 169

Re: Season two: episodes 7-12

jack_addict wrote:

I dont care how unlikely it is that someone would tell their boss - in such a situation - that, "if you wanted to go out sometime..." big_smile but I love that scene. I love tony and michelle. sweethearts that will always live in me big_smile. Almeida is God.

It is a sweet scene, though it always makes me squirm. In fact, I think it's about the first time we see the softer side of Tony, he never really got intimate with Nina in season 1. And I don't think it unlikely actually - Michelle has just been through a bombing, then finding out her boss is dying in front of her. It's the kind of day that can make you suddenly look at things differently, and act on impulse.

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#14 2007-08-03 14:53:14

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
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Re: Season two: episodes 7-12

smitten wrote:
jack_addict wrote:

I dont care how unlikely it is that someone would tell their boss - in such a situation - that, "if you wanted to go out sometime..." big_smile but I love that scene. I love tony and michelle. sweethearts that will always live in me big_smile. Almeida is God.

It is a sweet scene, though it always makes me squirm. In fact, I think it's about the first time we see the softer side of Tony, he never really got intimate with Nina in season 1. And I don't think it unlikely actually - Michelle has just been through a bombing, then finding out her boss is dying in front of her. It's the kind of day that can make you suddenly look at things differently, and act on impulse.

yeah you're right. like michelle said, "when people see that their lives might end by the end of the day they wanna get all their business done, i guess" big_smile
yeah you're right. first time for the soft tony although not the first time for sweet & sexy tony lol
ok, I admit, MY MIND IS IN THE GUTTER everytime i see that man. lol.


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#15 2007-08-30 18:06:13

emma143
Member
From: Preston, England
Registered: 2007-07-18
Posts: 41
Website

Re: Season two: episodes 7-12

jack_addict wrote:

thought 1) palmer crying. as far as i remember the only time he cried. when he gave nina the ok to kill jack at 4:55 pm. great scene btw jack and palmer there, and palmer and nina.

thought 2) jack and nina:
you know what nina, you're right, no i don't wanna just sit here and wait to die
if you kill me before they verify the information you gave them you'll be in violation of your pardon. they'll just slap your ass back in jail
and you'll be dead
i'm already dead

I know you guys have finished this rewatch but i have just got up to this bit-i lost my first video! When i first saw the screnes there i just had to rewind and rewatch i thought it is an amazing scene for Palmer were we get to see some REAL emotion and great acting (i do like that actor) and the way you just know hes about to break down into tears made ME want to cry....but then its on with business and the press!

As for the conversation between Nina and Jack....brilliant script writing...i just did not expect him to do that (despite seeing his helper)

these are the sorts of scenes that put 24 in a league of its own and just make 24 the best bit of television ever!


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4B, 6A, 1A* and the geek rules supreme (but still cant spell)

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