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#1 Re: The Archives of 24 » 24 Declassified - new books? » 2008-02-17 12:01:31

Past Present Fortune wrote:

I've heard about these books but have never read them, are they any good? I may buy them all.

If you like 24 and you like reading, you'll like reading these. In a way, they are more realistic than the telly, because the writers can be as explicit and bloody as they like, without worrying about the censors. So Jack doesn't say 'screw you' and 'dammit' quite as much. wink Anyway, they're cheap enough off Amazon. I still haven't read the new ones - am planning to savour them throughout my 24-less year. Sob.

#2 Re: Current 24 Debriefs » What could have been... » 2008-01-03 18:50:23

hardy24 wrote:

I also didn't like how easy Jack just moved on after that situation had resolved itself, apart from the infamous whisper in Nina's ear (I still really want to know what he said).

I read somewhere that what Kiefer actually said was something along the lines of "I love you Sarah. Why did you marry Xander?" At which you have to give her an oscar just for not cracking up laughing.

If you mean what *Jack* actually said, that of course, is up to our imaginations. In my imagination, Jack uses a few more colourful words than he normally allows himself, along with "rest of your life" and "hunt you down".

#3 Re: Current 24 Debriefs » Character Banner Poll On Main Site! » 2007-12-17 14:26:01

For what it's worth, I had to think long and hard before choosing between Chloe and Michelle this time. I did vote for Chloe, and I'm glad to see her and Aaron do so well, but I also want to be reminded of Michelle in her sweet little leather jacket, kicking *ss in the hotel!

#4 Re: Current 24 Debriefs » Forgotten Character Poll - Ideas Needed!!! » 2007-11-26 14:02:06

Brilliant poll, only you forgot one:

All of the above

#5 Re: Current 24 Debriefs » 24, writers guild and the strike » 2007-11-08 12:52:17

hardy24 wrote:

Obviously we can't say that quality won't be affected once the writers are back, but I think this helps ensure the quality more than airing what they had finished and then taking a break. Thoughts?

We all work better when we feel financially appreciated for our work. Dan, this would make a good poll - how do 24 fans feel about the delay, do they support the writers?

I wonder whether Kiefer will kill 2 birds with one stone, and do all his jail time while this gets sorted. I know I would just want it done, and not like it hanging over my head.

#6 Problems, Suggestions, Questions » thanks » 2007-09-21 10:12:01

Replies: 3

I've gone dark now as far as general discussion goes, but I do still lurk here occasionally, and just wanted to put in a vote of thanks for sticking to the new spoiler policy. If there is a big announcement, then I really don't want to know what it is, and that makes this one of the few sites I can actually go on safely until the new season unfolds. Roll on January!

#7 Re: The Archives of 24 » Season 3 - all episodes » 2007-09-03 08:06:52

So, Jack Addict, you're bored with a subject and I shouldn't post about it? I'm afraid that doesn't work for me. As for reducing the discussion to torture, that I won't even dignify with a response.

I'm coming from a similar place to ahhhKiefer on this one - I want to understand why I react in a particular way, even if it's against what I think. I'm also interested in Jack's point of view - how he struggles with it, and how he changes through the seasons.

But, to change the subject, I love Chase. He's great with Jack, and makes him look so old! I wonder how Kiefer winds down after work when he's spent the whole day shaking, grimacing and covered in fake sweat?

#8 Re: The Archives of 24 » Season 3 - all episodes » 2007-08-30 14:04:50

OK, well I will start us off with some more thoughts on torture!

There is a big time gap between seasons 2 and 3, and also a big gap in terms of where the characters are. Because torture was such a hot topic with the recent season, then when we went back to season 1, tih almost no torture, I've been asking myself where and how it all kicks off. And in what I've seen so far in season 3 (first 4 eps) there are two references that really strike me, although they're not in themselves all that dramatic. The first is Jack's remark that Salazar (I keep wanting to call him Slytherin) does not respond to physical interrogation. And we just know that Jack knows this because he's already tried it. Thoroughly. The second is when Jack and Chase catch the junkie and try to get info out of him - Jack gives Chase the nod and Chase stands on his bullet wound. OK, we get the picture that these two work well together and each anticipates the other's move, but what it reveals is that systematically hurting people has become, for them, routine. And that's a big step up from seasons 1 and 2.

BTW, I picked up in the library a book called The Interrogator's War: Inside the secret war against Al Qaeda by Chris Mackey. Its the memoirs of a US army interrogator in Afghanistan and is very interesting - at times sidesplittingly funny, and at times really, not. It is, I suppose, the reality view on all of this, and not surprisingly, the reality is very very different from fiction. Good background reading for fanfic writers!

The other thing I noticed was absent from season 1 is Jack's choke hold which he uses when he wants to take a friendly out of action temporarily (e.g. Curtis, FBI, etc). He doesn't use it at all in seasons 1 and 2. Here, we see him use it on Chase for the first time. Maybe he just learned it at a study day. (Incidentally, does anybody know if such a thing really works? It reminds me so much of that thing Spock does on the shoulder in Star Trek).

#9 Re: The Archives of 24 » Season Three: anyone care to jump in? » 2007-08-30 10:42:56

Well, I've not watched these bits for a while, but anyway...

ahhhkiefer wrote:

1-Gael is dying.  In Pain.  In Agony.  IN A HOTEL.  And they can't give him a room to friggin' lie down in? ... Is there some national security, tactical reason poor Gael couldn't chill in the honeymoon suite while waiting for his insides to slowly liquefy?

LOL. smile No idea. Probably, but budget couldn't stretch to the honeymoon suite.

ahhhkiefer wrote:

2-What DID Saunders go through in Bosnia?  The whole thing is set up so thickly in the mid-late episodes that it is the biggest letdown ever that he gets wasted by Mrs Ortega without ever getting a monologue to tell us WHY he's doing this.  Pity, because I do think audiences want to like their villains a little...

For a 24 villain, I think we get to understand him quite well. He was captured, probably tortured for information, the rest is left to the imagination. Suffice it to say, he hates America. I have other (logical) problems with his motivation and plan, like, a virus like this would spread round the world, so what really was his plan to protect himself and his daughter?

ahhhkiefer wrote:

I wonder if #2 especially is a lead on the reasons folks don't care for season 3 as much.  Anyone wishing to enlighten me further is most welcome.  God only knows how long it'll be before I have time/opportunity to watch Season 4...

Do people really like seaon 3 less? I don't know. Maybe it's just that it's in the middle - people tend to remember the first season they ever saw, and the most recent one, so perhaps season 3 has just been outshone by other stuff. Certainly, Jack's a lot less likeable here. And some characters (Nina, Sherry) get perhaps a plot twist too many? Still, great 24 and I'm enjoying rewatching it, even though it's now perhaps the 3rd or 4th time.

#10 Re: New in Town » Introduce Yourself » 2007-08-30 09:51:44

ahhhkiefer wrote:

well, Hi.  I'm an American with no TV ..  Ouch!  sad

Nice to have you on board. I'm generally up for discussion on any aspect of 24, and have just started watching season 3. smile

#11 Re: The Archives of 24 » 24 Declassified - new books? » 2007-08-25 19:33:58

That's great news, Jack Addict, thanks for letting us know.

#12 Re: The Archives of 24 » Season two: episodes 19-24 » 2007-08-24 10:59:40

OK, posting more now, and back to Jack. And the complete b*lls-up he makes of handling Hewitt. I mean, he already knew the guy had a psychiatric history, and in later seasons he deals with fragile people much better, but this time he completely mucks up, so that's interesting. The scene on the roof when he wants the helicopter to land is just pure 24. It sums the whole things up, doesn't it?

There was, in the 90's, an English cartoon called Stressed Eric. There are clips on Youtube if anyone's interested. Little stories about this poor man for whom everything goes wrong. He's a single dad, can't afford a pony for his daughter so she has to go to the gymkana on a donkey, that sort of thing. He has this vein on his temple that pulsates, the more stressed he gets, and if you watch an episode, you get stressed too. When Jack is on that roof, he reminds me so much of stressed Eric. Running about like crazy as if by shouting and waving his arms about he can really make that helicpoter land. He suddenly looks so small and powerless. Poor Jack.

The other scene I very much enjoy is when he tells Kim to shoot Gary. You can see it's ripping his heart out, because shooting people in the chest (twice) is what Jack does, not what he wants Kim to do. They both act it very convincingly and it almost makes up for the more tiresome plots that Kim has to go through to get here.

What they manage to do is to keep the tension and the action going to the very end. Of course they have the big fight scene in the last episode. But they also manage to keep the momentum in the penultimate episode, even when Jack just stays in the same building waiting for a helicpoter for an hour. What a great end to a great season.

#13 Re: The Archives of 24 » Season two: episodes 19-24 » 2007-08-23 15:52:15

jack_addict wrote:

we hear in one of these eps they're referred to for the first time as "Tony and Michelle" in one phrase big_smile  and it sounds so sweet smile. thy are just great. their chemistry really shows how well they work together.

They really are very sweet. I like the bit when they're in holding together, and they hold hands. (Is that why it's called 'holding'?) Somehow, to me, grown-ups holding hands is so much more romantic than kissing.

I've now watched to the end, so I'll make some comments now, but may have more time later.

Kingsley comes into his own in these final episodes, our first blood-curdlingly evil character since we last saw Mandy and Ira. He gives Sherry Palmer this hungry, lecherous look before frisking her, that really does make the hairs on my arms stand up.

As for Sherry, who we almost begin to feel for at the end, she has a fantastic line shen she says "I'm scared". I love that because it's the only thing Sherry ever says that we know for certain is actually true. I also love Jack's reaction to this. Perhaps because my own job involves so much focus on other people's feelings, and active listening, I get a real kick out of the way Jack ignores them!

I'll post a bit more later, coz there's so much in these last episodes.

#14 Re: TV (except 24), Movies and Music » Summer Blockbusters » 2007-08-22 10:02:42

Was watching Bourne Supremacy on the telly last night, realised that Jason Bourne shares the initials JB with James Bond and Jack Bauer!

#15 Re: No Rules - Enter at your own risk! » 2nd production delay » 2007-08-21 19:53:17

jack_addict wrote:

"Ok, we have 10 minutes to make Jack escape police custody, get across town, from North Hollywood to East LA, dodging the rushour traffic, save Kim from Cougar #2 in a hijacked helicopter and get rid of 5 baddies in the process. How do we do it? Ideas?" big_smile

LOL. smile Uh, let me guess - we're running out of time!!!

#16 Re: No Rules - Enter at your own risk! » 2nd production delay » 2007-08-20 21:20:58

jack_addict wrote:

not to sound defensive or attacking you but have you ever tried writing?

Believe me, JA, what I wrote was not in criticism. On the contrary, given the task, I think they mostly do very well. smile It's an observation. When you think of some of the crazy stuff they do, and you can just imagine someone in a committee saying 'they'll never buy that', and then - guess what - we do! But it must be like flying blind - scary.

#17 Re: The Archives of 24 » Season two: episodes 19-24 » 2007-08-20 21:07:11

Well, I do feel a little like I'm talking to myself here, but that's what's great about the internet, isn't it? I'll just waffle away and hope that someone somewhere gets something out of my post, as I certainly enjoy reading those of other people. smile

I watched episode 21 and noticed (for the first time) that we see American thug #1 barefoot just seconds before Jack dons a pair of shoes. I suppose that's 24 humour. I had previously wondered where the shoes came from, as it's Kate's house and they don't look her style...

I was also impressed in the same scene by what Jack says to her in a rare piece of chemistry between them:

There are things in this world that are just out of our control. Sometimes we like to blame ourselves for them so that we can try to make sense out if it. Come here. [they hug] There was nothing you could have done.

It's pretty touch-feely for Jack, said (I think) as much to himself as to her. A sign that George's words have had an impact on him, and he's starting to deal with Teri's death differently.

Note to Dan or any other moderator: I've been starting new threads every 6 episodes, but as we're not saying much in a thread, should we change to every 8 episodes?

#18 Re: No Rules - Enter at your own risk! » 2nd production delay » 2007-08-20 18:08:46

jack_addict wrote:

oh they've been repeating themselves a lot over the past few years.
they can't go back in time, they said it repeatedly. they can't kill off anyone, they can't make anyone look younger, they can't endanger anyone cause you know they'll survive to be in season 4 and that would take away some of the suspense. that's what tehy say.


Hmmm. Like you, I'm not convinced. They could make someone *a bit* younger, but I accept they can't make Kiefer into a pre-season 1 Jack, because he has just changed too much. They could (like in the books) bring in new characters and then we wouldn't know if they get killed or transferred to Seattle.

I've been thinking some more about the fix they're in now, and I think I've realised something from some of the comments they sometimes make. That is, that they genuinely don't know whether something is going to work or not. They don't know if a theme comes across as convincing, plausible or just plain absurd. They don't know before they do it, and sometimes they don't even know after they've done it. I know it's a cliche, but they just can't see the wood for the trees.

#19 Re: The Archives of 24 » What is up with Nina Meyers? » 2007-08-19 17:50:06

ssfsx17 wrote:

On the one hand, she is always trying to stop Jack Bauer from killing her. On the other hand, she seems to have desired after Jack ever since Day One.

Yes, that bit's a little hard to believe. I see it more about Jack's pulling power than anything else. There again, Nina, like Jack, will do what she has to do, but there are times when she will allow herself to enjoy it.

ssfsx17 wrote:

Does she, like, fantasize about Jack slamming her chair up against the wall or something?

Don't you? wink

PS, nice to meet you, ssfsx17. (that's a mouthful!)

#20 Re: No Rules - Enter at your own risk! » 2nd production delay » 2007-08-19 17:42:33

hardy24 wrote:

From a creative stand point i almost wonder if blowing a seventh season off for now and making the movie next might have been the best thing. Suddenly then whatever they where planning in Africa might have been possible.

Fingers crossed, I hope it pans out OK, and I really don't care if I have to wait a few extra weeks before the start of the season (remind me that next year). Traditionally they have really winged it a lot, and I think the series is now mature enough they just can't get away with that any more, or they start repeating themselves. The movie won't be bound by quite the same real-time constraints, so (theoretically) they should be able to be more innovative.  Could they set a movie after season 3 (Jack escapes rehab to save the world) and involve Tony? Michelle? But I'm sure even if the film was all new characters, if they introduce them right, it would work. Either way, if they need time to come up with new ideas, that's just fine. smile

#21 The Archives of 24 » Season two: episodes 19-24 » 2007-08-16 08:28:28

Replies: 6

I've now watched eps 19 and 20 - ashamed to say that the torture of Jack is one of my all-time favourite sequences, and once I get started I just can't stop. I even watched the commentary again, though I don't normally bother rewatching those, and Kiefer isn't really very forthcoming in it. Given he says he doesn't like watching his own stuff, it seems particularly cruel to have him comment on this one, eh?

He acts so beautifully, like the way he struggles to focus when the torture implement is put in front of his face, and again, when he is resuscitated. I've not seen any real resuscitations, but it only now occurs to me that when they are shocked and the back flexes, that really is the actor doing that! It looks hard to do and keep a dead-pan face at the same time. I also noticed for the first time, seeing the waistband of Kiefer's trousers as he flexes!

I wonder why they obscured his tattoos? I just can't see why they would go to the bother, given we already saw them (if only briefly) in season 1. Is there some cultural reason why Jack wouldn't have tattoos that I'm just not seeing? Here, pretty much everyone in the military would have at least one.

You really have to wonder about the storage of drugs in this clinic. The adrenalin they don't even keep in the treatment room, although it might actually be quite useful there. But baroglide, whose main effect is to paralyse the diaphragm, they keep in the basement. They probably keep all their dangerous drug there alphabetically, so that the baroglide can be found between the stocks of arsenic and cyanide.

And I absolutely love the kills that Jack makes here. His priorities - the two hostiles outside, then trousers, then information. I don't often think about camera work, but here I really have to take my hat off to them, as they're very careful about what they show, and what they don't show. They just get it absolutely right.

#22 Re: The Archives of 24 » season two: episodes 13-18 » 2007-08-11 18:39:14

M F Luder wrote:

Sorry to disappoint you smitten but it's Marc Casabani, not Cerassini, who plays Omar smile.

Ah. Just goes to show how the eyes see what they're familiar with.

M F Luder wrote:

Torture,hmm. That is a complex issue, it can be so much more than physical torture. Threats, that kind of things. I agree with you on most accounts, but pointing a weapon at someone, torture? There I disagree.

You have a point, pointing a gun at someone wouldn't normally be called torture. Now, a couple of questions. When Jack threatens to take Cofell's stomach lining out (and thereby kill him) was that torture? I think most people would understand Cofell to be Jack's first torture. So what's the difference if it's death by a bullet in the head. Now, if someone put a gun to year head and told you to do something that you didn't want to do (say, chant "I hate 24") - would that cause you severe emotional distress? I think the immediate threat of being killed has to cause severe emotional distress, which is covered in the definition of torture (in Wikipedia).

I'm sure Jack wouldn't consider this torture. I don't remember him ever using the word. He would think about pressure, interrogation, intimidation, gaining co-operation. I suppose I'm trying to work out how 24 got from season 1 (with sparing use of torture) to seasons 4 and 5, where it really gets too much. And what I'm finding is that it's really quite hard to draw the line.

OK, enough serious stuff. The scenes in the plane are wonderful - I do love to see Jack and Tony facing off. Great line I had never noticed before: (Jack about Yusuf Auda)

He's got some trust issues.

Jack's talking about trust issues! LOL. smile

#23 Re: Current 24 Debriefs » Poll Question Ideas Needed » 2007-08-09 13:28:23

Interesting poll up just now (about spoilers) - will be difficult to know what to do with the results!

I'm still trying to think of good poll ideas. How about: Can 24 survive without Jack? Yes/no.

I know we've talked this one to death in the forum, but the poll audience may be different.

#24 The Archives of 24 » season two: episodes 13-18 » 2007-08-08 11:20:32

Replies: 4

Favourite quote:

Who do I report to?
You report to me.
No offence, but rumour has it you won't be around here much longer, so ... who do I report to?

Also, just happened to notice in the credits that Omar (the one flying the hoax nuke) is played by none other than our very own Marc Cerasini!

I've been thinking about the theme of torture while rewatching this time, working out what, if anything, is justifiable, and so far all I've managed to conclude is that it's quite hard to decide what is torture and what isn't.  Sometimes it's obvious (electrocuting someone till they talk), sometimes it isn't. Is pointing a gun at someone's head torture? In my book, yes it is. What about pushing them into a chair and not letting them out (like Jack does with Nina when he first suspects her at the beginning of season 1)? No, to me that's just being rough and intimidating. But what's the difference really, because Jack doesn't need a gun to kill ro hurt someone? Hmmm. Will need to think about his one some more.

#25 Re: The Archives of 24 » 24- the official companion s3 and 4 » 2007-08-08 10:59:21

jack_addict wrote:

all true (and I actually do write tony centered novels big_smile).

Do you? Where can I read them? There are some links in the fanart section, but they no longer work.

As for them staying in character, I have just a slight problem in the novels when Nina hares around with a gun - we are specifically told in season 1 that she is not a field agent. But mostly, they are just a cracking read!

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